If we vote for Brexit what happens

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

David Davis agrees that businesses face 'cliff edge' threat if no EU trade deal is struck by 2019

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-david-davis-agrees-that-businesses-face-cliff-edge-threat-if-no-eu-trade-deal-is-struck-by-a7371376.html


Reality settling in?

I find it ironic how you can talk about reality when you post things like this:

I wish the Scots all the best in seceding from an increasingly xenophobic little england, where EU nationals are regarded as 'negotiation cards', refugees need dental checks, Poles are being kicked to death in the streets and companies who employ foreign nationals need to be 'named and shamed'.
Get out while you can and good luck!

Clearly you don't live in it.

Hysterical exaggeration must be called out as much as racism, it poisons political discourse and is, for some maybe primarily, behind the inability to have reasoned political discussion on these forums and in this country.

wotsthat

Conrad wrote: »

Which other independent nations face this cliff edge over their EU trade?

We currently have a trade deal with the EU. When we leave it will be more difficult and more costly to trade with the EU. If it's more difficult and costly there will be less trade.

We could debate the size of the hole (and whether the words 'cliff edge' are appropriate); we could even debate how long that hole may take to fill either from elsewhere or a recovery in EU trade. You could even say why you think trade with the EU will be unaffected.

However, the argument that countries x, y or z don't have an EU trade deal and therefore the UK will be fine is churlish. It's a fallacious argument.

mayonnaise

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I find it ironic how you can talk about reality when you post things like this:



Clearly you don't live in it.

Hysterical exaggeration must be called out as much as racism, it poisons political discourse and is, for some maybe primarily, behind the inability to have reasoned political discussion on these forums and in this country.

Are you denying government ministers calling EU citizens 'negotiation cards'?
Are you denying the rise in hate crime since the referendum?
Are you denying the calls from a Conservative MP to subject refugees to dental checks cheered on by the Daily Mail brigade?
You may call it hysterical exaggeration if it makes you feel better, but facts are facts.
I for one choose not to stick my fingers in my ears and ignore the problem.

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Hysterical exaggeration must be called out as much as racism,

It's not exaggeration though, everything he mentioned has/is happening/proposed by our government. He never said it's happening constantly, but it's a good example of the current state of affairs.

Herzlos

Conrad wrote: »

Which other independent nations face this cliff edge over their EU trade?

None, because none of them (except us) are looking at dropping down from a free trade agreement to WTO terms.

How is it my home is full of non EU products from nations with no trade deal?

Because of WTO terms.

What barriers are their to services - Singapore and others are to export services under Mifid 2 rules.

We don't know yet, which is why this thread is 9,400 posts long.

Rinoa

wotsthat wrote: »

However, the argument that countries x, y or z don't have an EU trade deal and therefore the UK will be fine is churlish. It's a fallacious argument.

If the US, Japan, China, India, South Korea etc were offered access to the single market on the condition they paid our membership fee pro rata and were obliged to offer free movement and work to all EU citizens, do you honestly believe any would take up that offer?

Herzlos

Rinoa wrote: »

If the US, Japan, China, India, South Korea etc were offered access to the single market on the condition they paid our membership fee pro rata and were obliged to offer free movement and work to all EU citizens, do you honestly believe any would take up that offer?

They'd bite our hands off at the elbow to become part of the single market.

I don't know what the EU would make of Chinas national ownership scheme though.

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

Are you denying government ministers calling EU citizens 'negotiation cards'?
Are you denying the rise in hate crime since the referendum?
Are you denying the calls from a Conservative MP to subject refugees to dental checks cheered on by the Daily Mail brigade?
You may call it hysterical exaggeration if it makes you feel better, but facts are facts.
I for one choose not to stick my fingers in my ears and ignore the problem.

The negotiation of the status of EU nationals is no different to that of UK expats within the EU. They are all in the same boat and given that neither the UK or the EU have guaranteed the rights of either group why are you not shrilling about the EU also?

The alleged rise in hate crime since the referendum doesn't explicitly translate into "Poles being kicked to death". We have no idea what motivated the person/persons who perpetrated that crime to do it. The media reported it was because they heard him speaking Polish, we've no idea if that is in fact the case. So that's an hysterical exaggeration. What do you make of this:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polish-man-attacked-for-a-buzz-1.705903

Does that mean Ireland is also 'xenophobic little Ireland'. Or does it just apply to England?

Hysterical exaggeration.

The dental checks aren't happening, whereas you were posting as if they were, again hysterical exaggeration.

In every single 'point' of your post you hysterically exaggerate. It's completely disassociated from the reality.

I for one prefer truth and reality above ideological and political point scoring.

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

They'd bite our hands off at the elbow to become part of the single market.

I don't know what the EU would make of Chinas national ownership scheme though.

They'd do what? And have the ECJ interfering in their courts?

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

They'd do what? And have the ECJ interfering in their courts?

If you offered any of those countries access to the single market they'd say yes and start shipping stuff before you could finish the question.

I think it's more likely the EU would refuse because they don't meet the requirements. I doubt they'd be any more/less happy about having to refer to the ECJ as anyone else is.