If we vote for Brexit what happens

CLAPTON

HornetSaver wrote: »

I think you're about three years ahead of time with that comment.

one can't debate with some-one that is blatantly untruthful
quotes are sarced

leveller2911

setmefree2 wrote: »

As a fellow Remainer I have to disagree.

Firstly, to suggest there is nothing wrong with the EU is plainly ridiculous. Apparently, if we leave the EU with a trade deal - then all 27 countries would be queuing up to do exactly the same. Not exactly a vote of confidence. Are you aware that 25% of MEPs are actually in a parliamentary party called Eurosceptic? They are MEPs from France, Austria, Belgium, Greece, Italy and Denmark to name a few.

To suggest that if we stayed in the EU everything would have been hunky dory is also equally ridiculous. At what point would you have thought immigration was a problem - if not a million people every 3 years - then exactly when? Are you aware that the EU wanted £60 billion in contributions from us over the next 2 years (that is net of a £30 rebate)? When would that have become an issue? What about when we had to introduce tax harmonization and we found that we had no control over raising taxes - would that not be an issue? Or when we lost control over our foreign policy and had to hand that over to the EU too. We clearly had no voice in the EU as Cameron came back with nothing, zilch, nada.

I voted for the status quo but I wasn't stupid enough to believe that the Brexiters weren't raising valid points. There was no easy route - staying wouldn't have been the Shangri La you seem to want to believe in.

So now the decision is made. Let's stop remoaning and instead start trying to understand other people's pov and do whatever we can to make Brexit a success.

Thankyou for that excellant post.

Many of the valid points you raise, Brexit voters also raised but its a prickly issue because the remain voters haven't got the answers.

The proposed Federalist system for the EU is not the answer either so even after we have left the EU these massive issues they face will (imo) have a detrimental effect on the UK.


There are no easy solutions on either side and as a Brexit voter I'm willing to admit it and again thanks for a balanced post.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Moby wrote: »

Us remainers never needed a plan. I was happy with things the way they were. I wasn't interested in the internal splits of the tories and the future was good in the long term.

Spot on.

The UK was thriving and prospering as part of the EU.

Record high employment, wages rising in real terms, unemployment falling (4.7% at last measure), deficit coming down nicely, best performing economy in the developed world last few years.

Now some of the consequences of Brexit are beginning to knock on the door our future has changed. The loudest knock is the tumble in the value of the pound. It has slumped a long way against the euro and I plunged even more dramatically against the dollar.

Making us all a lot poorer.

This alone will reverse all the gains of rising wages and result in real terms income cuts for almost everyone.

“Take back control” served the Brexiteer elite well as a slogan and their racist cheerleading thickos lapped it up. Although effective it was also a highly misleading guide to what would happen in a world in which the reality is a government does not have real sovereignty even over its currency. A pound is only worth as much as the world is willing to pay for it. If the world starts to believe that Britain’s economic prospects have deteriorated and that the country has become a less attractive destination for foreign investment, then the world will be less inclined to hold pounds. If the world starts to think that Britain is becoming less politically stable, a more unpredictable place to do business and a more risky country to lend to, then the world will be even less enthusiastic about owning pounds.

The slumping value of sterling tells us that this is exactly what the world now thinks. Markets are reacting to a government that is on a trajectory towards a “hard” Brexit that will be incompatible with remaining within the single market and may well see Britain’s departure from the European customs union as well. Companies are also becoming spooked as they grasp how protracted the negotiation with the EU is going to be. We have also gone down from being the 5th to the 6th richest country.

:T

Inflation will kick in soon and the xenephobic, semi educated hordes of Brexit Britain who thought that shutting the door on the immigrants would make their world a better place will be seen for the mugs they are. Ever the victims, too slow to be internationalist in outlook they have screwed things for the rest of us as well.........those who can't get Irish passports anyway.

Sturgeon I see is also digging a tunnel to effect escape for her crew from the sinking ship of Brexit Britain.What I say is well done to the 52%.....you've screwed the future prospects of your own country for years to come and probably ended the Union in the process. It will be long, slow and painful.

Indeed.

I've seen it posted in DT that some Brexit voters felt this was a vote to "punish" the 'elites and the rich'.

What utter rot.

The rich will do what the rich always do - just find another way to get richer. Brexit to them is an inconvenience not a punishment.

Those in the middle will see their cost of living rise and their financial security fall. But the smarter ones are globally mobile professionals with or without Brexit and can always head off overseas if things get bad enough here.

Teachers, doctors, dentists, pilots, engineers, etc are in demand world wide and can now earn significantly more money in pounds and pay lower (or even nil) taxes as well.

So as in all previous times of economic woes there will be brain-drain as the best and brightest in society ride out the storm overseas leading to even less tax contributions here and fewer of the smart people society will need to help itself rebuild.

But the ones who will really be "punished" are, as always, those in the bottom half of education and earnings. They're stuck... And if they thought they had nothing to lose they'll soon learn just how very badly wrong they were.

If you voted Brexit to "punish" anyone - chances are the only person you're punishing is the one you see in the mirror.

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Spot on.

The UK was thriving and prospering as part of the EU.

Record high employment, wages rising in real terms, unemployment falling (4.7% at last measure), deficit coming down nicely, best performing economy in the developed world last few years.



Making us all a lot poorer.

This alone will reverse all the gains of rising wages and result in real terms income cuts for almost everyone.




:T



Indeed.

I've seen it posted in DT that some Brexit voters felt this was a vote to "punish" the 'elites and the rich'.

What utter rot.

The rich will do what the rich always do - just find another way to get richer. Brexit to them is an inconvenience not a punishment.

Those in the middle will see their cost of living rise and their financial security fall. But the smarter ones are globally mobile professionals with or without Brexit and can always head off overseas if things get bad enough here.

Teachers, doctors, dentists, pilots, engineers, etc are in demand world wide and can now earn significantly more money in pounds and pay lower (or even nil) taxes as well.

So as in all previous times of economic woes there will be brain-drain as the best and brightest in society ride out the storm overseas leading to even less tax contributions here and fewer of the smart people society will need to help itself rebuild.

But the ones who will really be "punished" are, as always, those in the bottom half of education and earnings. They're stuck... And if they thought they had nothing to lose they'll soon learn just how very badly wrong they were.

If you voted Brexit to "punish" anyone - chances are the only person you're punishing is the one you see in the mirror.

indeed all was booming in the UK
record trade deficit
record foreign borrow to fun it
record sale of UK asset to fund the deficit
record London/SE house prices
record low number of UK born people able to live in London
record backlog of infrastructure costs
....................

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

setmefree2 wrote: »

to suggest there is nothing wrong with the EU is plainly ridiculous.

Of course there's stuff wrong with the EU - I've never seen anyone suggest otherwise - there are things 'wrong' with every government and every country and every union.

But that's no reason to throw our toys out of the pram.

At what point would you have thought immigration was a problem - if not a million people every 3 years - then exactly when?

Immigration is too low.

We need more of it.

Are you aware that the EU wanted £60 billion in contributions from us over the next 2 years (that is net of a £30 rebate)? When would that have become an issue?

And leaving with a 'hard Brexit' will cost the UK Treasury £66bn per year.

So those contributions are cheap by comparison.

What about when we had to introduce tax harmonization and we found that we had no control over raising taxes - would that not be an issue? Or when we lost control over our foreign policy and had to hand that over to the EU too.

Myths.

The UK had opt outs or vetos over all main issues.

There is no fear of the UK being railroaded into anything it didn't want to do.

We clearly had no voice in the EU as Cameron came back with nothing, zilch, nada.

Och away...

He came back with an opt out to 'ever closer union'.

The single biggest thing most of the anti-EU people complained about.

I voted for the status quo but I wasn't stupid enough to believe that the Brexiters weren't raising valid points. There was no easy route - staying wouldn't have been the Shangri La you seem to want to believe in.

So now the decision is made. Let's stop remoaning and instead start trying to understand other people's pov and do whatever we can to make Brexit a success.

Brexit can never be a success.

There are no circumstances under which we'd be better off outside the EU. There are only varying degrees of Britain being worse off.

I'm all for mitigating the damage as much as possible, staying in the single market, keeping as much of the good stuff as we can, but no matter what we're going to be a poorer nation after Brexit than before it.

setmefree2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Of course there's stuff wrong with the EU - I've never seen anyone suggest otherwise - there are things 'wrong' with every government and every country and every union.

But that's no reason to throw our toys out of the pram.

The debate is over - we lost.

setmefree2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Brexit can never be a success.

That's ridiculous.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

setmefree2 wrote: »

That's ridiculous.

Of course it isn't.

There are no circumstances under which we'd be better off with Brexit than with staying in.

Therefore Brexit can only ever be about varying degrees of failure.

It is therefore the responsibility of people who voted remain to continue making their case for why Brexit is a mistake, to continue holding the leavers to account as the things which are already happening (crashing pound, soaring inflation, companies leaving, Govt rejecting additional NHS funding, etc) come to pass.

And to mitigate the damage by making it as hard as possible for the Brexiteers to give us the Chaotic Brexit they want to see - and instead working towards the best settlement possible for Britain - staying in the Single Market and Customs Union - keeping our citizens unrestricted access to the EU to work and live - maintaining participation in all the EU structures that benefit us.

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Of course it isn't.

There are no circumstances under which we'd be better off with Brexit than with staying in.

Therefore Brexit can only ever be about varying degrees of failure.

It is therefore the responsibility of people who voted remain to continue making their case for why Brexit is a mistake, to continue holding the leavers to account as the things which are already happening (crashing pound, soaring inflation, companies leaving, Govt rejecting additional NHS funding, etc) come to pass.

And to mitigate the damage by making it as hard as possible for the Brexiteers to give us the Chaotic Brexit they want to see - and instead working towards the best settlement possible for Britain - staying in the Single Market and Customs Union - keeping our citizens unrestricted access to the EU to work and live - maintaining participation in all the EU structures that benefit us.

you clearly do not believe in the merits of free trade

mrginge

setmefree2 wrote: »

That's ridiculous.

Sone people just don't want Brexit to be a success. All they care about is not being wrong.

People like that are pathetic.