Tesco Shoplifting - need help.

JReacher1

Moglex wrote: »

As a couple of people have already pointed out, purely from self interest, Tesco will want to ensure that the correct form is followed so that they succeed in prosecutions where they are warranted.

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There seems to be some confusion from some posters who seem to believe that you can't be found guilty of a shop lifting crime if the store that catches you doesn't follow their own internal procedures.

This is frankly laughable.

If the OP had been a genuine shop lifter and the police had decided to charge him it would have had no effect on the prosecutions case whether or not Tesco had followed their standard internal procedures and had a manager present. Tesco have no legal requirement to follow their own shop lifting policy when they catch someone, they just have. Standard policy to make it easier for all employees to know what to do.

I think people have been watching too many American crime dramas where the accused get off because the police didn't follow procedures!

Azari

JReacher1 wrote: »

There seems to be some confusion from some posters who seem to believe that you can't be found guilty of a shop lifting crime if the store that catches you doesn't follow their own internal procedures.

I think the confusion is yours: I don't think anyone has said that.

If the OP had been a genuine shop lifter and the police had decided to charge him it would have had no effect on the prosecutions case whether or not Tesco had followed their standard internal procedures and had a manager present. Tesco have no legal requirement to follow their own shop lifting policy when they catch someone, they just have. Standard policy to make it easier for all employees to know what to do.

I think people have been watching too many American crime dramas where the accused get off because the police didn't follow procedures!

No, that's not what any intelligent poster has meant.

It's quite simple, really, and I cannot see why you are finding it so hard to understand.

I'll try and make it as simple as possible:

There are various actions that must be done to ensure a successful prosecution.

There are other actions that should be done to ensure that any prosecution goes as smoothly as possible and results in a successful outcome (for the shop and the police).

Tesco will want to ensure both categories of action are completed correctly (and their internal procedures will be designed to that effect), to ensure that any intentional shoplifter caught will be successfully prosecuted successfully and with the minimum of effort.

I hope that clears up any confusion in your mind.

hollydays

JReacher1 wrote: »

There seems to be some confusion from some posters who seem to believe that you can't be found guilty of a shop lifting crime if the store that catches you doesn't follow their own internal procedures.

This is frankly laughable.

If the OP had been a genuine shop lifter and the police had decided to charge him it would have had no effect on the prosecutions case whether or not Tesco had followed their standard internal procedures and had a manager present. Tesco have no legal requirement to follow their own shop lifting policy when they catch someone, they just have. Standard policy to make it easier for all employees to know what to do.

I think people have been watching too many American crime dramas where the accused get off because the police didn't follow procedures!

If..
There's an expression" if my auntie had xxxxxxxx she'd be my uncle"
Many of the standard procedures stem from the law.
For example, don't be on your own with a person you've detained -you could be accused of assault. There should be two Other people present , one of each sex.

Or
If you haven't seen the theft yourself-don't stop the person on someone else's say so.
Or if you've lost sight of the person you are watching even for a moment, you probably shouldn't stop them in case theyve disposed of the goods etc etc

Get the picture?
And if policies which are there for the protection of both the accused and the shop staff are not followed its highly likely it will go tits up-as has happened in this case exactly

hollydays

The-Truth wrote: »

Yes I can you don't work in retail do you!

The amount of times I've heard head office customer service staff call store managers who have staff with good track records who they don't want to lose. The answer is always when nothing can be done"Just tell them they've been retrained".

I've seen it, you probably haven't.

Why does a poster pop up once in a while who seems to think having worked in retail he's a rare species?
Let's face it , most people have worked in retail at some point in their lives.

Where was this expert when I asked the question " why wasn't a manager called?"..

hollydays

The-Truth wrote: »

If you weren't charged with theft you don't need advice. Unless you were hoping you could find a way to get back into that Tesco but seriously that is never going to happen no matter what people post on here.

Just put it down to a lesson learnt and try to work out how to avoid this happening again even if it is an unfortunate condition you suffer from.

I also recall you posted this-more expert advice...

Mrs_Ryan

When I studied law I seem to recall the key word is intent. You could argue in this case until youre blue in the face where the intent is.

But it seems a lot of shops have overzealous staff. Last Christmas I was shopping in Leicester Highcross when a member of staff from House of Fraser came running after me (I had walked about two shops down) and tried the 'you have to come with me' line. I said actually no I don't as only a police officer has the power to do they and you're not a police officer, but I will as I don't have anything to hide. I had set the alarms off it seems, no idea why as I hadn't anywhere else. I'm disabled and I carry a backpack when shopping as being on crutches I need my hands free. I went back to the shop and they proceeded to pull everything roughly out of my carefully packed bag (which immediately got my back up as I have mental health problems and issues with routine, but I stood quietly saying nothing) I showed them the receipts for everything and the debit card I paid with, and eventually they conceded everything had been legally purchased from other shops and had correct proof of purchase. One of them looked disappointed and said oh she's not got anything to the other one and they just turned away without another word. I said in a loud voice an apology would be nice but they just walked off.

I complained on their Facebook page and got the usual guff back but I walk past that store a lot and never saw them serving again- they weren't even security staff, they were assistants on the perfume counter! Hopefully they were moved somewhere else where no doubt they continued to harass innocent people... I'm aware the alarms went off for a reason and they need to check these things out but the manner in which they did it was a problem.

JReacher1

hollydays wrote: »

If..
There's an expression" if my auntie had xxxxxxxx she'd be my uncle"
Many of the standard procedures stem from the law.
For example, don't be on your own with a person you've detained -you could be accused of assault. There should be two Other people present , one of each sex.

Or
If you haven't seen the theft yourself-don't stop the person on someone else's say so.
Or if you've lost sight of the person you are watching even for a moment, you probably shouldn't stop them in case theyve disposed of the goods etc etc

Get the picture?
And if policies which are there for the protection of both the accused and the shop staff are not followed its highly likely it will go tits up-as has happened in this case exactly

Firstly the OP was right to be stopped by the security guard because as he admits he was standing outside the store holding items he hasn't paid for.

Secondly as I posted the policy's of tesco mean nothing legally.

1) you don't legally have to have someone with you when you are in a room with a potential shoplifter
2) you can legally stop a suspected shop lifter even if you have lost sight of them for a few minutes.
3) you can stop a suspected shop lifter if one of your colleagues reports they have seen them pick up items and hide them on their person.

You seem to have insider knowledge of tesco security procedures and seem to believe they are the law. Tesco security policies are in place because they employ staff on who by and large are not always that bright and so need step by step guidelines to follow when try encounter a situation outside of their normal remit.

However the law itself doesn't care what procedure tesco followed.

hollydays

Mrs_Ryan wrote: »

When I studied law I seem to recall the key word is intent. You could argue in this case until youre blue in the face where the intent is.

But it seems a lot of shops have overzealous staff. Last Christmas I was shopping in Leicester Highcross when a member of staff from House of Fraser came running after me (I had walked about two shops down) and tried the 'you have to come with me' line. I said actually no I don't as only a police officer has the power to do they and you're not a police officer, but I will as I don't have anything to hide. I had set the alarms off it seems, no idea why as I hadn't anywhere else. I'm disabled and I carry a backpack when shopping as being on crutches I need my hands free. I went back to the shop and they proceeded to pull everything roughly out of my carefully packed bag (which immediately got my back up as I have mental health problems and issues with routine, but I stood quietly saying nothing) I showed them the receipts for everything and the debit card I paid with, and eventually they conceded everything had been legally purchased from other shops and had correct proof of purchase. One of them looked disappointed and said oh she's not got anything to the other one and they just turned away without another word. I said in a loud voice an apology would be nice but they just walked off.

I complained on their Facebook page and got the usual guff back but I walk past that store a lot and never saw them serving again- they weren't even security staff, they were assistants on the perfume counter! Hopefully they were moved somewhere else where no doubt they continued to harass innocent people... I'm aware the alarms went off for a reason and they need to check these things out but the manner in which they did it was a problem.

Yep-and had they followed company procedure by saying " excuse me madam , we appear to have left a security tag on your purchase. Could we see your receipt to see which member of staff served you"
Everyone would have been happy.

hollydays

JReacher1 wrote: »

Firstly the OP was right to be stopped by the security guard because as he admits he was standing outside the store holding items he hasn't paid for.

Secondly as I posted the policy's of tesco mean nothing legally.

1) you don't legally have to have someone with you when you are in a room with a potential shoplifter
2) you can legally stop a suspected shop lifter even if you have lost sight of them for a few minutes.
3) you can stop a suspected shop lifter if one of your colleagues reports they have seen them pick up items and hide them on their person.

You seem to have insider knowledge of tesco security procedures and seem to believe they are the law. Tesco security policies are in place because they employ staff on who by and large are not always that bright and so need step by step guidelines to follow when try encounter a situation outside of their normal remit.

However the law itself doesn't care what procedure tesco followed.

If you stop someone you have not had continuos observation on and arrest them you have committed a false arrest .
No shop would ever suggest you stop someone because another member of staff tells you to-it's legal suicide. No I have no allegiance at all to tesco never shop their either-all shops broadly have the same rules

Lol " you can legally stop someone even if you've lost sight of them for a few minutes. " are you really that daft?
Shoplifters pass good on or dump them you fool
Organised shoplifting teams would love you..:rotfl:

hollydays

And would you be happy if your 15 year old daughter was left on her own in a room with a male security guard. No and shops don't allow it. it's gross misconduct