Hi all. Another (VERY LONG) dilemma

Brighton_belle

Littlebettyboop wrote: »

And yes Person One, I think we do need to have a conversation with her, gently and calmly without upsetting her.

It's a good thing to not to want to upset anyone, but along as you are clear, open and kind in the way you speak to her, you have no further control over whether she gets upset or not. It's hard to imagine she won't cry or get upset to be honest - she is ultimately being called out on using you a little.
Don't let tears make you retract though. Ultimately, you are potentially saving her much worse distress further down the line and she will thank you eventually.
I think you also have younger children - this is about setting an example to them too.

Pollycat

Littlebettyboop wrote: »

Someone asked earlier if we say we want it back. About 1 in 3 times we have given her money, we have said 'just give it back when you can' and the other 2 in 3 we just gave it to her. Even so, she has never offered it back.

I asked that question.

The fact that she's never offered to repay you means, at least to me, that she is taking your generosity and obvious love for her for granted.

And I think it's that attitude you need to change.

I didn't want to quote the whole of your post #67 but I think your daughter is a very lucky girl but probably doesn't appreciate you and her dad as much as she ought to do - yet.

The key is getting her to understand that she needs to live within her means without getting her back up about what she has/is squandering her money on.

Good luck with sorting this out, I'm sure it will all work out in the end.

CharlotteBarnes

Going off to University is a dizzying time for many. I remember lots of fellow students getting into thousands of pounds worth of debt in their first year because they didn't have a grasp on budgeting yet.

Maybe the next time your daughter complains about being skint, rather than hand her money, sit down and go through her budget with her step by step? Once she sees it all laid out in black and white in front of her, she'll understand what outgoings are really important and which are frivolous.

oystercatcher

I had savings ready to help my boys at uni. When the youngest had been there a few months he told me he didn't need the extra top ups (as he'd been given some bursaries) and told me to stop paying him .

Yes he does go out and about and enjoy himself.

His words to me a few days ago were. " I can't believe how many people deliberatley rip off their parents ! "

He's a nice lad

He'll get the savings at some time in the future when he does need them.

Savvy_Sue

Littlebettyboop wrote: »

After all, a time may come when we have no money to offer. What will she do then? Borrow off friends, and be that friend who never gives it back?

<snip>

Maybe I should tell her we have financial problems (that we don't want to talk about,) and we may not be able to help her out financially this year, so she best be careful, and budget her money better.

I think if you want your DD to be honest with you, then you have to be honest with her. AFAIK you do not have financial problems (although your other recent thread about your DH threatening to pull a sickie over Christmas means you might well have done soon!) So I don't think you should say you do.

However it is perfectly fair and reasonable to say that you love her too much to keep giving her money when she hasn't yet learned to budget, that you love her too much to keep bailing her out when she pleads poverty so that she never needs to learn to budget, and that you love her too much not to be hurt and upset by the way she has behaved.

And it would also be perfectly fair and reasonable to say that you now feel you haven't done her any favours over her first two years at Uni, but it's not too late to show how much you love her by not continuing to treat her like a child.

Also you can OFFER to go through her income and expenditure and help her budget, but I wouldn't assume I was seeing the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in whatever she chose to show me.

I think you have younger children too, no? What I did when mine went into sixth form was give them a monthly allowance to cover bus fares and lunches. It went into their bank accounts, and it was their responsibility to draw this money out before they ran out of cash. And I explained that there was no point coming to me at 10 pm on Sunday and saying "I don't have any money for the bus", because the chances of me having any were remote.

What they did with this money was up to them. DS1 took packed lunches, and travelled by bus. DS2 took packed lunches, and walked (four miles there, and four miles back). DS3 took packed lunches, and borrowed some money from us to buy a bike, which he paid back through a reduced allowance!

So the younger two then saved what they would have spent on travel.

Birdie85 wrote: »

I would agree that the tattoo *is* an issue, it doesn't matter that the OP doesn't like tattoos, but it does matter that it is a very frivolous spend when you're short on money. If it had been spent on a pair of shoes or a bag, the issue would be the same, she has wasted half of the money that her parents gave her to make sure that she had enough to eat.

And at least with a bag or a pair of shoes you can sell them on ebay ... tricky with a tattoo!

Birdie85 wrote: »

I would definitely be bringing it up from a point of view of 'Why the hell are you wasting our money on things you don't need?' and stop giving handouts. By the third year of uni she should have gotten the hang of budgeting and living off a small income.

I think I'd phrase this differently - there is little point getting confrontational about the tattoo, and I cannot imagine any good end to a conversation which starts 'why the hell are you wasting our money' ...

I can't see any point asking why she is doing what she is doing. You can't control her behaviour. What you can control is your actions, and you can tell her what changes there will be, and - briefly - justify them. "You have demonstrated that you have more than enough money for the necessities, so Dad and I will not be bailing you out this year. If you need help with your budget, please ask, or you can look at this website."
Or you could get her Martin's book "The Money Diet".

Personally, I think I'd also ask her not to tell me about any other tattoos she chooses to get. As my grandma used to say, "What the eye don't see, the heart won't grieve for". It's not applicable in all circumstances, but I'm sure I'm a lot happier for NOT knowing everything my boys get up to ...

pickledonionspaceraider

It is hard for the parents too when kids go off to Uni - to know what level of support to offer without being relied upon for basics . When you realise you are funding luxuries, it does make you cross

You don't want to see them struggle financially, and some do seem to need to learn the hard way = mine did. Mine went through a similar phase of living a champagne lifestyle on a lemonade budget whilst asking for top ups from us .

I would help draw up a budget. And advise that on a certain date, the financial support was going to stop other than dire emergencies - that she needs to stand on her own two feet and not regard you as a source of income.

I would help with food only - and only then when she was completely desperate . The bare minimal given per week - I am talking £10 or £15 worth of actual groceries delivered to her door. All value basic products: - rice, pasta, fruit, cereal = no luxuries whatsoever. You can do this via the big supermarkets who do home delivery. But like I say, I wouldn't do it regularly, only when things are desperate. Other than that I would buy shoes and clothes when needed.

It worked for mine. huge turn around.

As for the tattoo = please don't say anything. It is inappropriate. She is an adult. You wouldn't approach any other adult and out of the blue, ram your negative opinion ref their appearance down their throat would you? By inflicting your opinion on her, it would be treating her like a lesser equal - a child - and you say that you want to move away from immature spending habits - so in all things she needs treating like an adult - not just when it suits.

duchy

pickledonionspaceraider wrote: »

As for the tattoo = please don't say anything. It is inappropriate. She is an adult. You wouldn't approach any other adult and out of the blue, ram your negative opinion ref their appearance down their throat would you? By inflicting your opinion on her, it would be treating her like a lesser equal - a child - and you say that you want to move away from immature spending habits - so in all things she needs treating like an adult - not just when it suits.

I had a friend who was made homeless so I put her up for a few months. I didn't take any rent from her as she is low paid and was struggling to get a deposit together and money for essentials like a fridge and cooker etc. Upshoot was she got the council to pay for the deposit and fridge and cooker -and when she had a windfall -she didn't spend it on basics for the house or even in offering me a bit of rent but on a £500 camera "because I've always wanted one".

Was I miffed ? I'd helped her keep herself together -just as the OP has helped her daughter keep it together - and frankly buying something luxury when she couldn't afford the basics -just like the OP's daughter got a tattoo when she couldn't afford food was ridiculous and quite insulting to the people offering to help.Just like had the daughter spent the money on something she needed for her course the OP wouldn't have been so miffed ......and if my then friend had put the money away for bills or for a rainy day like losing her home again or toward decorating her new place (it certainly needed it ) I wouldn't have felt so used.

I think the OP has every right to feel put out her daughter essentially lied by claiming to be without money for food after spending up on an ipad and some body art. The fact she knew her Mum would hate the tattoo simply makes it worse as the underlying message is she's taking her for a mug.

It isn't about whether the tattoo is a tramp stamp or a work of art -it's about the disappointment in her daughter's sense of values about her parents feelings. If the daughter is old enough to get tattoos she's old enough to be told when she is been selfish and grabby.

Anatidaephobia

duchy wrote: »

I had a friend who was made homeless so I put her up for a few months. I didn't take any rent from her as she is low paid and was struggling to get a deposit together and money for essentials like a fridge and cooker etc. Upshoot was she got the council to pay for the deposit and fridge and cooker -and when she had a windfall -she didn't spend it on basics for the house or even in offering me a bit of rent but on a £500 camera "because I've always wanted one".

Was I miffed ? I'd helped her keep herself together -just as the OP has helped her daughter keep it together - and frankly buying something luxury when she couldn't afford the basics -just like the OP's daughter got a tattoo when she couldn't afford food was ridiculous and quite insulting to the people offering to help.Just like had the daughter spent the money on something she needed for her course the OP wouldn't have been so miffed ......and if my then friend had put the money away for bills or for a rainy day like losing her home again or toward decorating her new place (it certainly needed it ) I wouldn't have felt so used.

I agree. I had a friend who was in debt to several other friends and was paying them back at low amounts, like £10 a month without interest, then she unexpectedly got something in the region of £700 back from a company she had overpaid. She could have used some of that money to pay off the debts to her friends and still had plenty left to herself but no. She didn't give a penny to anyone else but instead went on a shopping spree and bought several designer handbags and other expensive accessories.

In this case, the fact that it's a tattoo itself isn't necessarily relevant - it could've been a designer handbag or something similarly expensive - but it would have had the same result. The OP's personal feelings about tattoos in general aren't relevant; her feelings about her daughter spending hundreds of pounds on an expensive tattoo when she has been pleading poverty are though.

pickledonionspaceraider

duchy wrote: »

I had a friend who was made homeless so I put her up for a few months. I didn't take any rent from her as she is low paid and was struggling to get a deposit together and money for essentials like a fridge and cooker etc. Upshoot was she got the council to pay for the deposit and fridge and cooker -and when she had a windfall -she didn't spend it on basics for the house or even in offering me a bit of rent but on a £500 camera "because I've always wanted one".

Was I miffed ? I'd helped her keep herself together -just as the OP has helped her daughter keep it together - and frankly buying something luxury when she couldn't afford the basics -just like the OP's daughter got a tattoo when she couldn't afford food was ridiculous and quite insulting to the people offering to help.Just like had the daughter spent the money on something she needed for her course the OP wouldn't have been so miffed ......and if my then friend had put the money away for bills or for a rainy day like losing her home again or toward decorating her new place (it certainly needed it ) I wouldn't have felt so used.

I think the OP has every right to feel put out her daughter essentially lied by claiming to be without money for food after spending up on an ipad and some body art. The fact she knew her Mum would hate the tattoo simply makes it worse as the underlying message is she's taking her for a mug.

It isn't about whether the tattoo is a tramp stamp or a work of art -it's about the disappointment in her daughter's sense of values about her parents feelings. If the daughter is old enough to get tattoos she's old enough to be told when she is been selfish and grabby.

Oh I agree with you, but maybe I didn't put myself across clearly apologies - I do think that the financial issue definitely needs discussing

To me, it is not out of order to question the money spent on the tattoo - or any other luxury, that is clearly a conversation that needs to be had - and urgently. I just wouldn't mention if I disliked a tattoo

To mention the parent not liking the tattoo is a complete aside to the actual issue - as the issue is money. It could be perceived as an attack on the daughters appearance and won't do any good to the financial issue

meritaten

I think that you should stop giving her cash! a box of groceries or something tangible she needs is fine - but, she obviously looks on the cash as 'pocket money'. at her age she shouldn't get pocket money!
oh, and it IS her body and if she wants it tattooed that is entirely her choice - though she should learn to prioritise her spending. bailing her out with cash is obviously not a good thing as she is irresponsible by the looks of things.