Another financial compatiability disaster!

duchy

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

I've just looked up the definition of marriage, due to the very forthright comments on this thread. I thought marriage probably involved a legal contract.

The OP is married.

Marriage is a legal OR formal/social union of two people. It's a public demonstration of their commitment to a relationship. You do not need to have the legal part to be deemed married, according to the English Oxford Dictionary and every other definition I found on Google.

Interesting.

Except that if one or other of the couple died tomorrow - the other would not inherit as the law doesn't recognize their relationship as they didn't make it legal ....... Yes of course the OP can call herself Mrs ....and refer to her husband - and socially it makes little difference - but when it comes to property.....or making medical decisions for her OH if he became incapable of doing so -then she has no rights at all without this supposedly un-needed piece of paper..

Waving your dictionary in the air will make no difference- Legally she is single.

GracieP

This is a financial forum and the OP's issue is about the personal finances of her and her partner, so the legal status of their relationship is important when it comes to the advice she is given. While the OP and her partner may be married on an emotional level they aren't married legally and so for the purposes of this conversation they aren't married as their legal status matter from a financial pov.

This is something that is important from a mortgage and house purchasing point of view too. I hope that the legal documents relating to the mortgage and future ownership of the deeds have the OP and her partner recorded as two single people because if they are recorded as married it could be viewed as fraud. The bank couldn't give a toss how much you love each other, if you aren't legally married but have stated that you are, that may matter to them very much.

Mupette

Sorry OP but to me you come across as controlling and flip when things are not how you want them.

Marriage (lets not get into that) is about give and take.

I owe my husband probably about 10k over the last 15 years. He doesn't flip out, there are times when i have money for something and he is short and i offer to pay. He has always earned more than me, but i still like to contribute to the household but also to us, us as a unit.

Husband has mortgage in his name only, suits me, in the past i was terrible with money, he doesn't hold that for years and years and then blow up in my face about it (And this is what you have done) I'm also ill with MS I don't use that as a weapon either, in fact he is the most kind, loving husband i've had (1st one was the opposite)

Lets use your example The cat, yours? his? or both of yours? i would assume it would be both of yours but you seem to imply its his therefore he owes me money. We have a dog and 2 cats, I bought the dog and 1 cat, but they belong to both of us and we share responsibility.

I think you need to stop mothering you husband, stress is not good in any relationship, love him for who he is, seriously holding on to oh he owes me this much will and already has started to chip away at your relationship if you are coming on here and attacking everyone who has given you very sensible and reasonable help and its not what you want to hear you fly off the handle.

How often do you tell/remind your husband of how much he owes you, i can imagine if my husband did that my self esteem would be gone, i'd become one unhappy person (wait husband one did that, that's why he an ex).

Have a good long think about how you really are with him, you say you love each other etc etc......

LannieDuck

mazy_m wrote: »

the way I do things is that we both pay our fair share. Therefore no one ever should feel they've been taken advantage of [...] I've seen so many of my girlfriends save for years only for them to meet a guy who is appalling with money and then they get screwed over by them or resent them.

You are being taken advantage of. Despite your very best efforts, you're getting screwed over by a guy who is appalling with money. He has debts that, according to you, he can easily take care of. Instead of doing so, he's continuing to spend his money as and when he feels like it. Which would be fine, except that his lifestyle is being subsidised by you.

That would also be fine (if you choose to give someone £1500/yr it's up to you!)... except that you're trying to be frugal in order to achieve common goals. It's completely unfair of him to spend your money when you're trying to cut back.

mazy_m wrote: »

He should realise he needs to be financially responsible that he can't be bailed out and feel secure in the knowledge that I'm sorting it all the time.

I think the problem is that there are no consequences for him. You keep bailing him out. To the tune of £11,000!

Where are the consequences, like him not being able to go on holiday with you because he can't afford it? Or not being able to pay his next month's cable subscription because his spare money's gone on servicing the debt?

What will motivate him to change if you always sort it his money problems?

mazy_m wrote: »

I think now I've calmed down and paid all the over limit things and sent messages asking the bank to please levy the charge for this month

Why did you do that? Again, no consequences. He's got himself (and you) into this mess. He needs to be the one to sort it out.

At least set up an automatic payment to reclaim that money from his paypacket the day after payday.


....ultimately you either need to:

i) share your money and accept that you're going to be making financial sacrifices in life because he can't control his spending (or won't - is his overspending really as naive as you hope it is?)
ii) or you keep your money separate and get frustrated every month as you keep bailing him out... (which seems to me to be a quick way to kill a relationship)
iii) or you keep your money separate and stop bailing him out

Lunar_Eclipse

pollypenny wrote: »

I think you'll find that, according to law, it is has to be legal.

Obvious, innit?

Yes, I agree.

And that's what I thought.

But that's not how I interpreted the definitions when I looked them up. There was no mention of legal requirements. Which made me wonder if it's a bit like wills. Whether a will would stand legally in a court of law isn't as straightforward as one thinks. Solicitor drawn wills can be rejected, and a homemade penscribe can be accepted.
There's the whole minefield of consummation too.

The law is a minefield.

mazy_m

duchy wrote: »

So you are planning a THIRD wedding/party/celebration -Jeez !!!!

Actually I find your attitude to marriage quite offensive - but then to me it isn't about showing off with a party but about the commitment we are making to one another -and I don't find the need to keep pretending to do it because some people can't attend. The whole point of a wedding is to invite people to come and celebrate with you -If after two attempts they still can't make the time ....perhaps it is because they don't take your marriage seriously either. If my friend/relative kept having weddings but never bothered doing the legal bit I wouldn't bother going - I'd think it was all about the party and not about the commitment.

It's clear you aren't married however as otherwise you wouldn't be claiming he owed you 11K -as he simply wouldn't. I wonder if this is why you haven't just popped down to the registry office after the festivities - as you claimed you were going to do when you posted about your wedding on here some time ago.

It isn't unusual to have a non legal ceremony -but it is unusual to not pop to the registry office for the legal bit before or after. Do all the people who bought you wedding gifts know you aren't actually married and have no plans to be in the near to medium future ?

If you can't afford the couple of hundred it costs to legalize your wedding then perhaps you shouldn't be buying a house anyway though. Are you expecting that anyone who attends the registry office ceremony to buy you another wedding gift too........or maybe you are just addicted to weddings ??? How many more are you planning.......and will you be renewing your vows on your wedding anniversary
each year......and if so which one...or perhaps you could do it on all of them !!!

Oh and the registrar wasn't rude- they were following the law. Just because you *want* them to do it differently to the laws of the land doesn't mean they can. However you *could* have paid for a registrar to attend your handfasting and have had the two ceremonies on the same day in the same place .

Hmm if you read what I've written properly we've had a hand fasting ceremony - single not plural therefore one so no idea where you've got the third thing from. Also the people that couldn't attend that time was certainly not from not believing in it. One couple were travelling. The family members close to where we live was due to mobility and his dad well that's something I'm not going to get into on a forum that's to do with his family so he wasn't comfortable going due to people who would be there.






I never said anywhere he's in substantial debt he isn't. He effectively could pay this off in no time if he just thought about what he was doing. I've also never said we can't afford to pay for the legal ceremony. If we wanted we could go and do it now no problems.


Also you were not there you don't know how they spoke to me and yes it was rude and abrupt and I didn't like their attitude therefore for that and because it wouldn't be the lovely words and ceremony. I'm well aware that I could have paid the registrar to come and do that bit another time of the day I just didn't want to. Ha ha it's funny you say that as we said not to have gifts and to donate money to charities that were important to us and yes they were well aware that it was a handfasting and all loved it and said it was one of the most beautiful ceremonies they'd ever attended as it was completely us and involved all the guests at some point. I've already explained why we've put if off we decided to do it a year after the handfasting on the same date. Then we decided that money we'd saved for that should go to a house deposit instead. No hidden agenda there.


Maybe my wording was wrong I wrote effectively owes me originally but I've made it clear that I don't expect to see that money but he is adamant that he'll be putting the same as what I've put into all the stuff over the years he said he knows it won't be now but it will be sometime and he had hoped it would have been sooner but work have screwed him over somewhat!


I'd also suggest you read things right in the first place as pretty much all of what you said was laughable!

thorsoak

So legally, you are an unmarried couple. Fact. Please ensure that you are both aware of the implications of not being legally married in the event of the death of either one of you upon the other.

mazy_m

Mupette wrote: »

Sorry OP but to me you come across as controlling and flip when things are not how you want them.

Marriage (lets not get into that) is about give and take.

I owe my husband probably about 10k over the last 15 years. He doesn't flip out, there are times when i have money for something and he is short and i offer to pay. He has always earned more than me, but i still like to contribute to the household but also to us, us as a unit.

Husband has mortgage in his name only, suits me, in the past i was terrible with money, he doesn't hold that for years and years and then blow up in my face about it (And this is what you have done) I'm also ill with MS I don't use that as a weapon either, in fact he is the most kind, loving husband i've had (1st one was the opposite)

Lets use your example The cat, yours? his? or both of yours? i would assume it would be both of yours but you seem to imply its his therefore he owes me money. We have a dog and 2 cats, I bought the dog and 1 cat, but they belong to both of us and we share responsibility.

I think you need to stop mothering you husband, stress is not good in any relationship, love him for who he is, seriously holding on to oh he owes me this much will and already has started to chip away at your relationship if you are coming on here and attacking everyone who has given you very sensible and reasonable help and its not what you want to hear you fly off the handle.

How often do you tell/remind your husband of how much he owes you, i can imagine if my husband did that my self esteem would be gone, i'd become one unhappy person (wait husband one did that, that's why he an ex).

Have a good long think about how you really are with him, you say you love each other etc etc......

Hi thanks yours was a bit more productive that others I've read. Which seem to detract from the actual issues.


If you read through it you'll see that it's not about that 11k that I flipped it was the fact that it was the only thing I'd asked him to do not get overdrawn and watch his accounts this month and it seemed he wasn't taking it seriously. I've also said I don't throw in in his face this was the first time I'd really mentioned it as I was trying to point out to him that it was difficult to do that and he's not been on the same page. Which was fine until we had to get serious about the mortgage. I'm not sure why people are not understanding this is not about the money to me I don't really care about it. It's about the fact that I felt he was not taking it seriously and potentially screwed up our mortgage offer which is a dream we both were working towards and incredibly excited for.


I've never implied he was paying the vet bills alone we agreed together as we both decided to take our baby in. In terms of anything else we both decide what we need to do and then decide if we 'need' to get something. He's talking about upgrading the TV for the new house and getting an xbox. He's been after one for ages. He's not saying he's going to get it as he knows we would both be paying for it. However we've made a compromise that if the tv has not died by then ( it's pretty old and has been on the blink for a while) then we'll upgrade when it does die and it's using available cash and not credit. The x box could be viable as instead of the gym which we both use it might be nice to use that for exercise together.


He emailed me today and apologised saying he wasn't thinking about having another credit check and it wasn't anything else that he knows he wants to do this and will do what he can to sort it out when he gets back.


That's pretty much all I wanted when I wrote the thread. I was mad as I was scared the offer wasn't going to happen because of this. He also made me feel better by showing me telling me to go on his noodle and showed me that he really has improved as those were the first ones for ages. I was so proud of him for that.


I think that shows that he really was trying to be more financially savvy but let it slip once he thought the mortgage was sorted.


By the way you do sound like you have such a lovely supportive husband and so good that he's so different from your first.

mazy_m

duchy wrote: »

Except that if one or other of the couple died tomorrow - the other would not inherit as the law doesn't recognize their relationship as they didn't make it legal ....... Yes of course the OP can call herself Mrs ....and refer to her husband - and socially it makes little difference - but when it comes to property.....or making medical decisions for her OH if he became incapable of doing so -then she has no rights at all without this supposedly un-needed piece of paper..

Waving your dictionary in the air will make no difference- Legally she is single.

Ha ha thank you!! That's the point I was trying to get across.


If we had done the handfasting just a few miles down the road ( more like 100) in Scotland it would have been legal.


We've always joked about the fact that on forms we are single.:rotfl:


Like I've reiterated on here so many times that was the important part to us, the commitment and being there with our friends and family. Not the legal bit. However we were fine doing the legal part too.


Neither of us a money minded so financial legal implications are not important to us. The next of kin thing was as I said to him years ago if something happened to you how could I not be there with you or vice versa. Him and my mum are the two people I'd need to be with me first and foremost!

mazy_m

GracieP wrote: »

This is a financial forum and the OP's issue is about the personal finances of her and her partner, so the legal status of their relationship is important when it comes to the advice she is given. While the OP and her partner may be married on an emotional level they aren't married legally and so for the purposes of this conversation they aren't married as their legal status matter from a financial pov.

This is something that is important from a mortgage and house purchasing point of view too. I hope that the legal documents relating to the mortgage and future ownership of the deeds have the OP and her partner recorded as two single people because if they are recorded as married it could be viewed as fraud. The bank couldn't give a toss how much you love each other, if you aren't legally married but have stated that you are, that may matter to them very much.

Yes we are down as two single people as we understand that we're not married legally.