Mediation

Pixie5740

The definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

Stop with the "what ifs" she isn't going to change. She doesn't see that there's a problem with her behaviour so she won't make any effort to change. From your posts she knows how to push your buttons so don't let her. CBT should help with that.

Focus on yourself and your son. Focus on regular access and getting to see your son without her lingering like a fart in a spacesuit, and get yourself down to the gym or out for a run.

Yesterday I sat listening to one of my closest friends going on about her boyfriend...again. They've been together for 5 years, he isn't going to change. He is who he is and that's not the kind of man she wants to be with (he's actually nice but has chronic Peter Pan syndrome, that's just who he is) and I have been listening to the same thing for almost 4 years now. 4 years!!! He isn't going to change.

He does a similar job to me so I have a fair idea of how much he earns. I cannot understand why he has no savings, let alone masses of debt. She wants to go on holiday, nothing fancy just a week in the sun. He ums and ahs saying he can't afford it. Next thing he's telling her he has borrowed £10k to buy a boat. I don't know why she is surprised, it's not the first time he's done something like this. They have split up several times before and just when we all think it's finally done and dusted...they're back together again. So you're not alone.

Guest101

Pixie5740 wrote: »

The definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

Stop with the "what ifs" she isn't going to change. She doesn't see that there's a problem with her behaviour so she won't make any effort to change. From your posts she knows how to push your buttons so don't let her. CBT should help with that.

Focus on yourself and your son. Focus on regular access and getting to see your son without her lingering like a fart in a spacesuit, and get yourself down to the gym or out for a run.

Yesterday I sat listening to one of my closest friends going on about her boyfriend...again. They've been together for 5 years, he isn't going to change. He is who he is and that's not the kind of man she wants to be with (he's actually nice but has chronic Peter Pan syndrome, that's just who he is) and I have been listening to the same thing for almost 4 years now. 4 years!!! He isn't going to change.

He does a similar job to me so I have a fair idea of how much he earns. I cannot understand why he has no savings, let alone masses of debt. She wants to go on holiday, nothing fancy just a week in the sun. He ums and ahs saying he can't afford it. Next thing he's telling her he has borrowed £10k to buy a boat. I don't know why she is surprised, it's not the first time he's done something like this. They have split up several times before and just when we all think it's finally done and dusted...they're back together again. So you're not alone.

Cheers. I know she wont change.

Not without either help or a kick up the backside anyway. But i think im done with the rollercoaster.

She does make it difficult to leave. I've tried in the past and when using DS against me doesnt work, the carrot comes out.

Hopefully ill have my flat sorted next week. It means abit of debt, but affordable. My current LL is selling anyway, so i'd have to move sooner or later. Hopefully I can negotiate some of my rent back (lodger not tenant), as they want me to swap room this week to help market the property.

I'm defintely looking forward to CBT, get myself out of this rutt. Gym / running will be on the cards in a week or 2 when i'm abit more settled.

She always said im disorganised, well sorting a new place to live, a counselling course and regular physical fitness in the space of a few weeks, whilst balancing out her crazyness and not going crazy my self with the lack of contact seems quite good to me :rotfl:

Tuesday_Tenor

>>>> I know she wont change.
So remember that fact in all consideration of future issues, future decisions.

Or rather, remember that CHANGEABILITY is part of who she is.
She will be nice to you, paint rosy visions of the future when it suits her; when that makes her feel good. None of it will be more than momentarily sincere.

She will also, at other times, continue to belittle and humiliate you, when she needs to see you as inferior so as to confirm her sense of being right/better/perfect.

Does she really see you as a person with feelings / rights / wishes / priorities that have to be discussed and negotiated alongside hers? No, she probably sees you, and most other people, as a 'guage' against which to confirm, in comparison, her 'rightness'. She isn't looking for an equal partner, and never will be.

>>>> But i think im done with the rollercoaster.
I hope so. I couldn't live like that.

>>>>> She does make it difficult to leave.
Yes, she's an arch manipulator.

>>>>> I've tried in the past and when using DS against me doesnt work, the carrot comes out.
You already have experience of her manipulation.

Both of the following are within your control if you stay strong, thing clearly, get the arrangements in place and act comnsistently:

Her attempts to thwart access will in future be minimised by having court-ordered arrangements.

Any attempts she make in future to entice you back must be viewed as momentary thoughts on her part. Insincerity. Pure manipulation, to which you are now wise.

The following is going to be much more difficult, and difficult over the next 20 years.
She will no doubt try to turn your son against you. The fact that you already fear this tends to support our suspicions of her narcissisitc traits.
Read up about triangulation (divide and rule) on the narcissism sites.
But remember she will do this whether you are with the (un)-happy family or not. Better for you to have your own normal life, that son can come to, and can return to in fiuture, even if she does succeed in driving a wedge berween you for a while at any point.

I'm no expert; the websites will have ideas about different approaches, although there are no easy solutions. [Unless she becomes so unfit to parent and he come to live with you instead].

The things that occur to me are: Be vigilant. Ensure that your son has contact with role-models other than his mother. Ensure your son has contact with people who can question/challenge anything nasty he seems to be saying as a result of her indoctrination. Is he at school or nursery yet? Does/Will he have contact with your parents and siblings?

It is going to be very difficult to co-parent with a person such as youe ex. If you live with her it will be difficult AND you will go crazy. If you live separately, it will just be difficult.

>>>>> Hopefully ill have my flat sorted next week.
Excellent news.

>>>>> I'm defintely looking forward to CBT, get myself out of this rutt. Gym / running will be on the cards in a week or 2 when i'm abit more settled.
Again, very positive. Can you manage a walk or short run this week to start the habit? Hopefully the CBT will help you change unhelpful ways of thinking.

She always said im disorganised, well sorting a new place to live, a counselling course and regular physical fitness in the space of a few weeks, whilst balancing out her crazyness and not going crazy my self with the lack of contact seems quite good to me :rotfl:
Seems good to me too! See, she has manipulated you into thinking you are far worse than you are. Maybe there's a grain of truth, maybe you aren't mega-organised. That in itself isn't a big problem. But only someone like a narcissist will work with that grain of truth and repeatedly work on the idea, develop and twist it, until you become, in her mind, some totally dysfunctional monster/nerd/goon who she feels justified in berating. From what you've written, that's not who you are, Guest, that's a carefully-created figment of her imagination. Which she then gets you to believe too.

I'm writing at length, because I think you desperately need a light-bulb moment to realise how her mind works and the impact this has had on you. Just how dangerous it can be. And that she will always operate like this. I worry for your son. But, I say again, the best way to help him, is to have your own fulfilling life separate from you ex. And to have only minimal necessary contact with her.

Guest101

Tuesday_Tenor wrote: »

>>>> I know she wont change.
So remember that fact in all consideration of future issues, future decisions. - I will. I am starting to see the wood for the trees. I feel better most of the time. Just wrote up the discussions for mediation on friday. 5 bullet points and clarifications, so i can stick to my script as much as possible. I know it's sad, but there are times i forget the bad, but i have to keep reminding myself. For my own sanity. Much of what you wrote below is so very accurate.

Or rather, remember that CHANGEABILITY is part of who she is.
She will be nice to you, paint rosy visions of the future when it suits her; when that makes her feel good. None of it will be more than momentarily sincere.
Exactly this. The 'you could've had it all' stories. But i just think now, if her behaviour was considerate, made me happy, I'd off been happy throughout. The fact that the police have been called dozens of times (never charged with anything, arrested once, as i explained earlier) was just another method of control. Do as i say, or you're in for it.

She will also, at other times, continue to belittle and humiliate you, when she needs to see you as inferior so as to confirm her sense of being right/better/perfect.
She does this regularly. I guess i was just upset that I didn't notice what was going on. Not that it matters now. But at the time, i was shocked. She denies it of course, but i'm not even asking her what's going on. It's like she's trying to convince me she's not seeing anyone. I just reply with 'OK'.

Does she really see you as a person with feelings / rights / wishes / priorities that have to be discussed and negotiated alongside hers? No, she probably sees you, and most other people, as a 'guage' against which to confirm, in comparison, her 'rightness'. She isn't looking for an equal partner, and never will be.
This is so true. I know she's had a tough time in life. But i do start to question whether what she told me is true, or a twisted version thereof. But i rarely felt like an equal partner.

>>>> But i think im done with the rollercoaster.
I hope so. I couldn't live like that. - I can't anymore. It would build up and build up, until i'd snap. Say no. Dare to disagree and then it just got worse. I'd stopped even commenting on things, it wasnt worth the effort. Just 'yes, you're right ofcourse'.

>>>>> She does make it difficult to leave.
Yes, she's an arch manipulator. - Yep. Her whole family been turned against me (no great loss). Then she started on my family. Thankfullt the majority reaslied the truth. Though my mum still hides all this from my grandparents. So they think it's all rosey and nice. My mum doesnt really get it. Half the time it's 'man up'. Which i kind of get, but it's not that simple.

>>>>> I've tried in the past and when using DS against me doesnt work, the carrot comes out.
You already have experience of her manipulation.

Both of the following are within your control if you stay strong, thing clearly, get the arrangements in place and act comnsistently:

Her attempts to thwart access will in future be minimised by having court-ordered arrangements. - I will eventually do this. I want to establish a pattern of contact first. So when it goes to court, I can provide evidence.

Any attempts she make in future to entice you back must be viewed as momentary thoughts on her part. Insincerity. Pure manipulation, to which you are now wise.
I suspect if (or likely when) this happens. Saying no, may cause more problems in the short term. But hopefully she'll have moved on by then. - this may be the court order time

The following is going to be much more difficult, and difficult over the next 20 years.
She will no doubt try to turn your son against you. The fact that you already fear this tends to support our suspicions of her narcissisitc traits.
Read up about triangulation (divide and rule) on the narcissism sites.
But remember she will do this whether you are with the (un)-happy family or not. Better for you to have your own normal life, that son can come to, and can return to in fiuture, even if she does succeed in driving a wedge berween you for a while at any point.
This is an excellent piece of advice. I always have DS in mind. The flat im getting (hopefully) is 2 bedroom, he can have his own space to feel safe in.

I'm no expert; the websites will have ideas about different approaches, although there are no easy solutions. [Unless she becomes so unfit to parent and he come to live with you instead].
She's had moments, from before we've met, which would raise question marks. But being an excellent manipulator, she convinces people she's ok.

The things that occur to me are: Be vigilant. Ensure that your son has contact with role-models other than his mother. Ensure your son has contact with people who can question/challenge anything nasty he seems to be saying as a result of her indoctrination. Is he at school or nursery yet? Does/Will he have contact with your parents and siblings?
Nursery at the minute, but she's convinced them, i'm the problem. And my family dont live locally. So it would be me in the main role. Her parents in some role, they're decent people, but she has probably filled them full of lies.

It is going to be very difficult to co-parent with a person such as youe ex. If you live with her it will be difficult AND you will go crazy. If you live separately, it will just be difficult.

>>>>> Hopefully ill have my flat sorted next week.
Excellent news.

>>>>> I'm defintely looking forward to CBT, get myself out of this rutt. Gym / running will be on the cards in a week or 2 when i'm abit more settled.
Again, very positive. Can you manage a walk or short run this week to start the habit? Hopefully the CBT will help you change unhelpful ways of thinking. - I walk everywhere, so i do feel like i get some exercise. Sometimes it's nice just to walk, so might do a couple miles tonight.

She always said im disorganised, well sorting a new place to live, a counselling course and regular physical fitness in the space of a few weeks, whilst balancing out her crazyness and not going crazy my self with the lack of contact seems quite good to me :rotfl:
Seems good to me too! See, she has manipulated you into thinking you are far worse than you are. Maybe there's a grain of truth, maybe you aren't mega-organised. That in itself isn't a big problem. But only someone like a narcissist will work with that grain of truth and repeatedly work on the idea, develop and twist it, until you become, in her mind, some totally dysfunctional monster/nerd/goon who she feels justified in berating. From what you've written, that's not who you are, Guest, that's a carefully-created figment of her imagination. Which she then gets you to believe too.
Always thought she had my best interests at heart. But it was just her own interests.

I'm writing at length, because I think you desperately need a light-bulb moment to realise how her mind works and the impact this has had on you. Just how dangerous it can be. And that she will always operate like this. I worry for your son. But, I say again, the best way to help him, is to have your own fulfilling life separate from you ex. And to have only minimal necessary contact with her.

Thanks for the advice. I really do appreciate it.

I suppose i should take solace that previous relationships havent been like this (though clearly they didnt work out either!). So there is some light in the tunnel

(need to sort out my ipod / phone for music. Walking with music helps)

ecgirl07

Guest101 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. I really do appreciate it.

I suppose i should take solace that previous relationships havent been like this (though clearly they didnt work out either!). So there is some light in the tunnel

(need to sort out my ipod / phone for music. Walking with music helps)

Walking is a great way to fitness, check out some smartphone apps like Mapmyrun or Endomondo that will track your exrcise. Couple this with using my fitnesspal to track your food you will be well on the way to getting healthy.

I finally got my Christmas present of a fitbit charge hr, which is a very effective motivator but maybe too expensive at this time for but something to look to saving to.

Guest101

ecgirl07 wrote: »

Walking is a great way to fitness, check out some smartphone apps like Mapmyrun or Endomondo that will track your exrcise. Couple this with using my fitnesspal to track your food you will be well on the way to getting healthy.

I finally got my Christmas present of a fitbit charge hr, which is a very effective motivator but maybe too expensive at this time for but something to look to saving to.

Cheers I will look into it.

I generally do a lot of walking, as it helps me clear my head.

so much going on outside of all this.

Finalising my loan - hopefully tomorrow.

Had a filling drop out of my tooth, so need that sorting, but £50 is too much right now. If it gets painfull ill go emergency dentist

And my mobile provider is threatening to cut me off, despite
taking payment.

It's like blooming buses!

Guest101

As for mediation. I was working on what i want to get from it.

Is this reasonable:

A 2 week rolling agreement:
Week 1: 1 evening midweek and weekend with DS
Week 2: 2 Evenings midweek With DS

Holidays - 2-3x 1 week holidays per year with DS ( doesnt have to be a 'holiday' but a chance to spend the week with him ).

Birthdays - to see DS for birthday

Christmass - alternative years - Christmas eve and morning with DS & Christmas day evening and boxing day with DS.

Am i missing anything. I want it done properly this time.

And given her personality, should i ask for more and work down, or put this on the table and just state this is fair.

Guest101

Guest101 wrote: »

As for mediation. I was working on what i want to get from it.

Is this reasonable:

A 2 week rolling agreement:
Week 1: 1 evening midweek and weekend with DS
Week 2: 2 Evenings midweek With DS

Holidays - 2-3x 1 week holidays per year with DS ( doesnt have to be a 'holiday' but a chance to spend the week with him ).

Birthdays - to see DS for birthday

Christmass - alternative years - Christmas eve and morning with DS & Christmas day evening and boxing day with DS.

Am i missing anything. I want it done properly this time.

And given her personality, should i ask for more and work down, or put this on the table and just state this is fair.

What do people think, is the above reasonable?

Is it best to go in asking for more, and work downwards or?

RAS

Your suggestion is perfectly reasonable but I would start with

Guest101 wrote: »

As for mediation. I was working on what i want to get from it.

Is this reasonable:

A 2 week rolling agreement:
Week 1: 1 evening midweek and weekend with DS
Week 2: 2 Evenings midweek With DS

Holidays - 2-3x 1 week holidays per year with DS ( doesnt have to be a 'holiday' but a chance to spend the week with him ).

Once you have that in place start making arrangements for special days.

You might want to agree Mother's Day with her (to be swapped for an extra day with you if it falls on your day) and Father's Day with you(ditto).

Guest101

RAS wrote: »

Your suggestion is perfectly reasonable but I would start with


Once you have that in place start making arrangements for special days.

You might want to agree Mother's Day with her (to be swapped for an extra day with you if it falls on your day) and Father's Day with you(ditto).

Good advice, cheers.

I know it's tuesday, but i really feel like a couple beers. Mates arent about though (and given how many are currently single, what they doing?!)