Struggling and no one to turn to.

Money_maker

MoodyMel wrote: »

But I end up not going as he pretty much says he isn't going to stay in with the kids.

As purpleshoes says, this sort of behaviour is so stifling. It's as though you are being punished for his mental health problems and its really cunning to use the kids like that.

I have very little knowledge of his condition but I get the feeling that it doesn't account for all of his controlling behaviour.

paddy's_mum

Does it occur to you that he is tantamount to forcing you to enable him?

BigAunty

Yes to the enabling - he says he's too stressed to deal with ordinary tasks like household budgeting so she helps to maintain this infantile status by doing it all, too stressed to find work so she must do so but then as he wants her at home, this gets sabotaged with little resistance from her, too stressed when she isn't in close proximity so she has a night out every three years or so (if he doesn't sabotage it), too stressed by her trips to Uni whereas she doesn't challenge his studies.

I had a wicked thought that the next time he went out, she should have a temper tantrum to prevent it or allow him to go but text him hundreds of times 'see what it feels like'.

So he's getting his own way and she must walk on egg shells and appease his preferences and world view that it is for her own protection that she remains in the house with him.

Sure he's suffering - he makes it clear with the wailing and the panicking - but at the end of the day, he seems to be able to do what he likes when he likes, above and beyond what he permits you to do. He has complete freedom on how he spends his time and to indulge his interests but he doesn't permit the same privilege to you.

On a practical note, who is claiming the Child Benefit in their name? The state pension requires 35 years worth of contributions which the stay at home parent with CB can get their stamp paid for some of the child raising years. If he's not claiming JSA, then is his stamp not being paid? Has he ever tried to claim disability or sickness benefits?

Being out of employment and being out of the system just means he is even more dependent on you.

To the OP - have you ever considered that he may never recover? Do you think perhaps his issues are too entrenched and true recovery (one that would lead to the end of his suffering and give you complete social freedom) is impossible?

You mention that he's not too keen on having kids? Do you see this as yet another way of controlling you - shutting down your fertility? Could it be that he is jealous of the attention that young dependents get? He can't get his full share of you in those circumstances? Is it because he sees the world as a dark and dangerous place so his world view is more important than yours?

What he seems to want is for both of you to withdraw from the reality of the world, away from employment, social activities, family relationships and for you to being in a sealed bubble. His illness doesn't see this as isolation but as protection from the world.

BigAunty

How did you get on with the Constructive Living philosophy? The therapy is about accepting we can't change our feelings but we must take responsibility for our behaviour, despite discomfort- this is an opinion that would shock your hubby who has now had years of being able to prioritise his emotions and fit his behaviour (and yours) around them. I came across another good quote from the author.

" I encourage you to use what influence you have to fight against the trend that emphasizes emotions above all else. In this age many people believe that they must feel confident and comfortable before taking action. They believe that uncomfortable feelings must be erased
at all cost. They believe that feelings of distress must be conquered with medicine or meditation or diet or some other magical technique before life can be lived well. What is reasonable, right, or even aesthetic are subject to the single purpose of feeling good. When feelings take precedence over necessary behavior civilization is on its way downhill. Our current level of affluence was built and sustained by people doing well what needed to be done, feeling comfortable or not.

Cherry24

The bit about him saying he will leave the kids if you go out is the bit I can't relate to. Most people with OCD are overly conscious of other people's welfare. Even the thought of hurt or neglect happening to a person can send someone into a guilt spiral for days. I know if I had said something like that (which I wouldn't), I'd be kept awake at night from the guilt of even suggesting it.
I know that in the height of anxiety when it's irrational and fight or flight, people can be selfish and think of number 1 for those brief seconds.
However, he needs to realise that this ultimatum behaviour is unacceptable.

BigAunty

Cherry24 wrote: »

The bit about him saying he will leave the kids if you go out is the bit I can't relate to. ...
However, he needs to realise that this ultimatum behaviour is unacceptable.

Yeah, that emotional blackmail is straight out the 'wife beater's manual'!

He does have to take responsibility for his actions. It's an extraordinary pressure tactic that is, at it's core, completely abusive and controlling. It's also effective as the OP appears to back down because of the risks involved if he carries out his threat.

There was a lady with 5 or 6 kids who posted on the forum who was in an actual abusive relationship. Her husband racked up a lot of debt. He refused to work but he also refused to look after the kids - he wanted her to put them into nurseries for 2 or 3 days of the week.

One of the striking things about her raw deal is that he would force her to bend to his will by saying he would leave her. She faced issues with her Uni course and employer (think she was training in a medical role like Nursing) because if he didn't get his way, he would walk out of the house. I think he used to go and sleep in the car. He never really left her, just wanted to punish her, so he would abandon the household briefly to show her who is boss. In the end, she got a restraining order after he bit their youngest kid.

The OP has never commented on her housing status, whether private tenancy, own property or social housing, if her ownership or tenancy is single or joint.

She has indicated she wants to 'leave him' but not whether she is in the position to ask him to leave their accommodation. If she wants advice on her rights and options, she must detail the tenure of the property and if jointly or solely in name.

MoodyMel

BigAunty wrote: »

Yes to the enabling - he says he's too stressed to deal with ordinary tasks like household budgeting so she helps to maintain this infantile status by doing it all, too stressed to find work so she must do so but then as he wants her at home, this gets sabotaged with little resistance from her, too stressed when she isn't in close proximity so she has a night out every three years or so (if he doesn't sabotage it), too stressed by her trips to Uni whereas she doesn't challenge his studies.

I had a wicked thought that the next time he went out, she should have a temper tantrum to prevent it or allow him to go but text him hundreds of times 'see what it feels like'.

I actually have done this a few times. I did it last night too Not the way to proceed but I was too annoyed by his reaction to me going out with a friend so when he said he was going to a friends after club runs I told him why should he when I don't get to...

So he's getting his own way and she must walk on egg shells and appease his preferences and world view that it is for her own protection that she remains in the house with him.

Sure he's suffering - he makes it clear with the wailing and the panicking - but at the end of the day, he seems to be able to do what he likes when he likes, above and beyond what he permits you to do. He has complete freedom on how he spends his time and to indulge his interests but he doesn't permit the same privilege to you.

On a practical note, who is claiming the Child Benefit in their name? The state pension requires 35 years worth of contributions which the stay at home parent with CB can get their stamp paid for some of the child raising years. If he's not claiming JSA, then is his stamp not being paid? Has he ever tried to claim disability or sickness benefits?

Being out of employment and being out of the system just means he is even more dependent on you.

To the OP - have you ever considered that he may never recover? Do you think perhaps his issues are too entrenched and true recovery (one that would lead to the end of his suffering and give you complete social freedom) is impossible?

You mention that he's not too keen on having kids? Do you see this as yet another way of controlling you - shutting down your fertility? Could it be that he is jealous of the attention that young dependents get? He can't get his full share of you in those circumstances? Is it because he sees the world as a dark and dangerous place so his world view is more important than yours?

What he seems to want is for both of you to withdraw from the reality of the world, away from employment, social activities, family relationships and for you to being in a sealed bubble. His illness doesn't see this as isolation but as protection from the world.

In reply to your other post, we are on a joint tenancy. He won't leave (yes I have asked him to leave in previous arguments) Hence me building up some money secretly so that I am in a position to leave if everything escalates again.

Cherry24 wrote: »

The bit about him saying he will leave the kids if you go out is the bit I can't relate to. Most people with OCD are overly conscious of other people's welfare. Even the thought of hurt or neglect happening to a person can send someone into a guilt spiral for days. I know if I had said something like that (which I wouldn't), I'd be kept awake at night from the guilt of even suggesting it.
I know that in the height of anxiety when it's irrational and fight or flight, people can be selfish and think of number 1 for those brief seconds.
However, he needs to realise that this ultimatum behaviour is unacceptable.

This is why I don't think he would leave them, he worries constantly about everyones welfare. He more says 'why should he be stuck in with them' and insists that if I am going out he is going out and we need a babysitter, which we don't have. He does also play the guilt card on me and say that it is me that wanted the kids so I shouldn't expect to just swan off whenever I feel like.

He says he feel guilty about making me feel like this. For example yesterday, when I saw him in the car coming my way, he said that he felt bad making me feel upset, however he went on to say he feels 10 times worse than I do. He always plays the 'i don't know what it's like' card. Although I tried to stress yesterday that he has absolutely no idea how I feel and what it is like to live with him.

I told him about ERP, he says he will look into it. I also agree that he may never get better. I know I can't live like this forever so I am prepared to leave. With regards to seperating I have two plans. 1, I will just leave one day with the kids when he has gone out, once I have enough money. 2, I will make him leave the house by packing his bags and getting a police officer round to ensure he leaves.
I have a friend who's husband is a police officer in my town so I will contact her and arrange for her hubby to come round to assist.

I really don't want us to separate

Cherry24

Yes, his mental health problems are probably very distressing for him but he should also be conscious of how it affects you. At the end of the day, he doesn't know how you feel, he should try and imagine your distress and the anguish you are going through.
I would never want my boyfriend to feel like you do. Your life revolves around relieving his anxiety and in turn you have very little time to enjoy yourself. Your quality of life is greatly suffering
I understand that you don't want to separate. Does he know that you have been pushed to the edge and are considering leaving or are you afraid to mention this?
Has today been any better for you?
Sorry about the formatting of my posts, I write them on my phone so they may not be the easiest to read.

MoodyMel

I am beginning to wonder if I need some help for myself. It is so ingrained into my psyche that I can't do anything I think I am holding back a lot now.

I don't know what to do. Maybe I should go to the GP. I was thinking of writing a letter to him and leaving it for him to read while I am at uni one day next week. explaining that we need help together and things HAVE to change or I am definitely leaving.

Good idea/bad idea? I don't know anymore!

BigAunty

MoodyMel wrote: »

In reply to your other post, we are on a joint tenancy. He won't leave (yes I have asked him to leave in previous arguments) Hence me building up some money secretly so that I am in a position to leave if everything escalates again.

I know that leaving is a last resort and that you hope to salvage the relationship.

However, on a practical note and as you are in planning mode, the Shelter website has good information about your rights and options including in a joint tenancy.

You have other options apart from leaving.

One is to get an occupation order from a court that bars him from the property but that's probably a route that requires you to demonstrate behaviour issues on this part. I'm not really sure what this process involves so hopefully other posters can notify you of this.

The second option with less hassle on your part is to negotiate a sole tenancy with your landlord (assuming it is a private one, if it's a council one, it's not this simple).

Landlords generally don't like to get sucked into personal issues but if you diplomatically explain about the relationship breakdown and that you are the main income receiver/earner, then hopefully the landlord will facilitate this.

In a joint tenancy, it requires only one tenant to serve notice to tend the tenancy so it doesn't require permission or action from the other. Or you could wait until the current fixed term to lapse (if you have a fixed term contract) and ask the landlord to issue the new one in just your name.

Do you have a good relationship with the landlord, are they likely to cooperate? If the tenancy is made in your sole name, your future ex would have no right to reside there. It is that simple.

The problem with your plan to leave is that in a joint tenancy, your obligation to pay rent still continues even if you don't occupy the tenancy. You need to end the tenancy and all tenants need to depart to formally end it. If he decides to remain in the property, I believe that the end of the tenancy if you serve notice is frustrated, and your liability to pay rent will continue (because it requires vacant possession, not just being served notice, AFAIK).

Clearly, as a single person in a family sized home, his HB will not cover the rent. If he's under the age of 35, then he's only entitled to the single room in a shared house rate in a private tenancy or he will get hit with the bedroom tax in social housing. Over the age of 35, he will be entitled to the 2 bedroom rate. He would quickly go into arrears.

However, I believe there may be some kind of transition where full HB is payable for 13 weeks in certain circumstances. Ask on the benefit forum on MSE.

Do check with Shelter, though, on the position about ending a joint tenancy. They won't give advice on HB.

Is he attached to the house as a safe space or in an agoraphobic kind of way? Does he have any friends or family locally that he could move to? Would he cooperate with applying to the council as homeless if you ever ask him to leave?

In England, there are limited options offered by a council for single people though I believe they may do a bit more for a vulnerable person.

So your third option might be to seek housing from the local council under the homelessness route due to the relationship breakdown - they prioritise those with dependants. Shelter has information about this process in their homelessness section.

You could always contact your local council homelessness dept to find out about your options (or lack of) - they sometimes prefer to prevent homelessness and want people to approach them before they reach that stage. Under this route, you won't need savings - they should be able to sort out accommodation and may have a deposit guarantee scheme, for example, where they pay the deposit on your behalf to a local private landlord, or give you a social housing tenancy where no deposit is required to be paid upfront.

They may even decide that you are a victim of domestic abuse because of the pressure tactics, emotional abuse and degree of control you are under. Not sure how this works but again, the Shelter website has a section on DV, so too, will Womens Aid who have advisors in this area.