Struggling and no one to turn to.

MoodyMel

BigAunty wrote: »

Do you actually think that the controlling aspects (threat of anxiety attacks, ladelling on the guilt, the pressure you are put under to submit to his preferences) will actually lessen if/as he recovers? Have you experienced a reduction in surveillance when his illness is under control?

Or do you think the control which causes you a high degree of social isolation and limits your employment and income opportunities may thrive independently of his mental illness? That it's perhaps part of his learned behaviour, comes out of his personality or basic character?

Was he responsible for driving your family away?

Did he exhibit any kind of monitoring, insecurity or jealousy in the early days of your relationship? Does it ease off as he recovers? Over the long period that you've known him, obviously there will have been big ups and downs in his illness, but has the controlling element just generally increased over time?

btw, Womens Aid publishes a basic guide on how to keep yourself safe online. Also, if you google the topic, you will get an idea how to check if your accounts and electronic items have been compromised and how to protect them. He has an extraordinary fear of being abandoned so I wonder if he's somehow anticipated it. Women are extremely vulnerable when their partner finds out they are ending the relationship and planning to leave.

http://www.womensaid.org.uk/page.asp?section=00010001000800010001

I don't think it has increased, it has just been up and down throughout our whole relationship.

BigAunty wrote: »

"I try to shelter them from it all. I have no doubt they see it, they aren't stupid. I don't think it is affecting them too badly though they are all great kids, sociable, all doing brilliantly in school etc.. I make sure they get to go out to see friends, even if it causes me stress as I then have to have him pacing up and down checking his phone every five seconds in case they call, checking the time... "

Do you think they end up walking on eggshells like yourself? Does he do normal 'dad' type activities like taking them out, attending school events or is it limited to a bit of chauffering? Is there much interaction? With you, he's extremely needy to an intolerable degree so does he act like a dependent with them?

It sounds like he's not keen on being a house husband in terms of childcare while you study/work or perhaps that you don't think he's cut out for it? I'm not quite clear on the set-up from your posts. I'm not quite certain how he contributes to the house if he's not in employment, not into basic housekeeping tasks like budgets/bills.

Again, not wholly applicable in your circumstances, a household afflicted by the behaviour of an ill person rather than an abusive one, but hopefully there is some helpful there.

http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-violence-survivors-handbook.asp?section=000100010008000100380001&sectionTitle=Children+and+domestic+violence

Yes he attends school things, kids parties, he is planning on taking the big two to snooker with him, he colours in and plays guess who etc with the small children and on weekends we watch films and play board games with the older children, once the younger ones are in bed.
On these occasions we seem like the 'perfect' family unit. I don't think the kids walk on eggshells. He doesn't hit or smack them and he will readily apologise to them and have chats with them if he feels he has told them off in too harsh a manner.

BigAunty wrote: »

As an aside, I've become interested in eastern psychology which has a different take on mental illness and recovery than the western model.

It's a very gross generalisation but here in this part of the world, there is a notion that a person has to recover before they can then start to do everyday activities whereas the more eastern style is that an ill person should aspire to do their everyday activities, and even serve others, as part of the recovery process.

I've started to read the work of David K Reynolds who is admired for the way he has bought therapies that originated in Japan over to the west.

He calls his model 'Constructive Living'. It steers people away from focussing on the past, foccusing on their feelings, focussing on excuses, excessive self attention. It wants the sick person to take responsibility for their actions.

I've observed before that it doesn't seem to have 'caught on' or become very high profile and I wonder if it's because it is so unpalatable to our western, individualistic, consumerist world.

The OP could google his work. Sample lecture paper which offers an example that might chime with the OP (replace the term 'plane' with the OP herself)

"Self confidence vs. reality confidence
It can be said that the core of neurosis is a self-centeredness. The person who fears flying knows that the airline flies that same route day after day without crashing. But in shinkeishitsu moments the person believes that because he or she is on that plane it is special, it will deviate from the ordinary and crash. ... However, we are not the center of everyone else's universe.

Shinkeishitsu moments ("shinkiness" in CL terms) is filled with self-concern--what will happen to me? How terrible they make me feel! Why must I suffer so much? During "shinky" moments there is very little concern with the inconvenience of others. In "shinky" moments the client will corner anyone who shows some compassion and will complain endlessly. When the listener finally begs to be relieved of the burden of offering a shoulder to cry on the momentary "shink" will only be disappointed that the person wasn't there for him or her longer. There was so much more to complain about."

This is what I try to get him to do.
I only make the family dinner for him. He makes his own breakfast, lunch, supper and washes all his own clothes. He is a lazy !!!! when it comes to household chores but he will put bins out, sort recycling, empty the dishwasher... although all of these need to be requested of him, as he is a typical man and can't see what needs doing.



Summary from today is that the car does seem to make him feel a bit better. I went to uni in my car and he went to visit a friend. He says it kept him sufficiently distracted so he wasn't panicking. Obviously this isn't possible for him to do 3 times a week but it is a good sign.

BigAunty

MoodyMel wrote: »

Summary from today is that the car does seem to make him feel a bit better. I went to uni in my car and he went to visit a friend. He says it kept him sufficiently distracted so he wasn't panicking. Obviously this isn't possible for him to do 3 times a week but it is a good sign.

Do you really think this car holds the key to you attending your remaining lectures without extreme emotional pressure and securing 24 hours employment that he doesn't try to constantly sabotage?

RAS

MoodyMel

BigAunty is giving you a tough time but she is trying to help.

I will butt out tonight but send my love and hopes and talk to you another day

Chia

BigAunty wrote: »

Do you really think this car holds the key to you attending your remaining lectures without extreme emotional pressure and securing 24 hours employment that he doesn't try to constantly sabotage?

I don't know that she necessarily thinks that...just a step along the way, perhaps.

BigAunty

RAS wrote: »

MoodyMel

BigAunty is giving you a tough time but she is trying to help.

I will butt out tonight but send my love and hopes and talk to you another day

That's a nice balanced view. I probably do a bit too much 'devil's advocate'.

I am not dismissing the genuine mental distress he suffers and I am not proposing she's in a truly abusive relationship. She is, however, totally suffocated by it. Her very identity, role of wife, mother, student and prospective employee is pretty much trampled over and subservient to his needs (and boy, is he needy).

I'm also jaded by personal experience of seeing people hold onto their problems and issues rather than resolve them because they prioritise their self identity as a 'sick' or 'vulnerable' person. I see how strong they are in getting their own way, having so much agency in their life yet insisting that they are suffering.

I am probably a bit too coloured by the frequent 'man-child' threads where women report that their male partners, though this thread is much more complicated in some respects. For example, she's not being directly financially exploited - he's not contributing a single bean but neither has he systematically robbed her in the way that we often see on this forum.

In its basic structure, it's not really much different from the fairly repetitive threads where a woman reports that she is being controlled by a partner, is isolated from friends and family, typically by an economically inactive man, and often one who prioritises their own social interests, hobbies or addictions.

But the contradictions that are there in his behaviour are really curious.

He can sometimes steel himself to socialise with friends while being certain that his wife faces death if she isn't accompanied by him. He enjoys studying but is thoroughly disruptive with her commitments. It sounds like, within reason, he has complete freedom to do what he likes when he likes, not shackled to anything as tedious as a job. He has a deranged view of his perfect family in their safe home with a strong relationship with his wife while actually driving her into having to call crisis support phone lines....

Type of thing...

BigAunty

Chia wrote: »

I don't know that she necessarily thinks that...just a step along the way, perhaps.

What's the second step? And the third?

How does she get from a once in a blue moon brief respite from his persistent attendance up to 24 hours per week?

She must be thoroughly worn down by it because a person with more resilience may have simply switched off their phone and bounded out the door saying 'I am unlikely to die as I attend my lectures. I'm going out for a drink with the students after. Make sure you fix a meal for the kids. See you in 3 hours. I'll text you when I'm on the bus back home, no need to pick me up'.

But she's yielded (or been respectful, from another viewpoint) of his distress and mindful of the way he might call the Police and challenge her for this quite simple excursion that in 99.9% of households would be treated as something quite unremarkable.

Savvy_Sue

I haven't got a lot to give here, but I was really struck by the contrast between the OP's approach to his hypochondria - ignore it, here's the paracetamol, get on with it - and her approach to the mental issues, eg

BigAunty wrote: »

He can sometimes steel himself to socialise with friends while being certain that his wife faces death if she isn't accompanied by him. He enjoys studying but is thoroughly disruptive with her commitments. It sounds like, within reason, he has complete freedom to do what he likes when he likes, not shackled to anything as tedious as a job. He has a deranged view of his perfect family in their safe home with a strong relationship with his wife while actually driving her into having to call crisis support phone lines....

and ...

BigAunty wrote: »

She must be thoroughly worn down by it because a person with more resilience may have simply switched off their phone and bounded out the door saying 'I am unlikely to die as I attend my lectures. I'm going out for a drink with the students after. Make sure you fix a meal for the kids. See you in 3 hours. I'll text you when I'm on the bus back home, no need to pick me up'.

But she's yielded (or been respectful, from another viewpoint) of his distress and mindful of the way he might call the Police and challenge her for this quite simple excursion that in 99.9% of households would be treated as something quite unremarkable.

I know that mental health conditions cannot be dealt with by 'snapping out of it', but I do wonder if in this case they've been allowed to assume more importance than absolutely required.

It might be worth doing a few 'what's the worst that could happen?' scenarios, and see if anything can be done about it. So the OP falls under a bus - she might do that while with the family, does worrying about it in advance help?

paddy's_mum

BigAunty wrote: »

But the contradictions that are there in his behaviour are really curious.

I agree. OP - my advice to you would be find out how to protect yourself, in both practical and physical terms.

It is, sadly, very far from unheard of for a man to erupt into cruel and/or violent behaviour once he sees that the partner is outside his control.

ineed

I do sympathise with both you and your husband OP, speaking as someone who has had many health problems and been housebound and also knowing how restricting and unfathomable mental health can be to those not affected I know you and your husband are each in your own personal hell. I haven't read your whole thread, just skimmed it, so I apologise if I repeat other advice you've had or have missed anything.

I'd see if your husband would be willing to go to the GP again for a referral to your local mental health team, I know from personal experience that mental health treatment in this country on the NHS isn't great, it's never been that well funded and more recently has been cut to the bone financially, but there are still services available to help if you push for them. I think a psychiatrist for one on one talk sessions might be beneficial to your husband rather than group therapy CBT, although again services are limited and there is a waiting list for them. The Samaritans have an email service which is great as they remember your emails and it might be more comfortable for you both to do that rather than talk on the phone with each other in hearing. If your OH can use a computer or phone I can also give you some links to fantastic online support communities full of sufferers of various mental health conditions, there's chat rooms and forums available and he might feel less alone and encouraged by all the success stories, and you might get some respite.

Wishing you all the best.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

OH suffers from anxiety. Absolutely crippling anxiety at times.

He has NEVER attempted to restrict, control or in any way limit my personal freedom because he (rightly, IMO) believes that is abusive and controlling behaviour that is absolutely nothing to do with being ill. Just as hitting somebody is, no matter what provocation may be claimed. And just as threatening to commit suicide is.

An ill person can still be an abusive one.