Hollaback

Better_Days

JJG wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75aX9mlipiY

I think this video provides a good contrast against the first.

The difference is that in the first video the comments are all from men who are likely to be physically stronger than the woman. So if they wanted to act on their comments it would be hard for the woman to stop them. That is much more intimidating for the woman than for the man in the video who looks physically matched to all those who commented.

I think the comments are not acceptable in either case. But I also think that it is likely that many more women will have been subject to harrasement than men and both parties are well aware that the man is usually physically stronger than the woman.

It seems to me that the sarcasm at the begining of the video you quote indicates that the person speaking has totally missed this point.

Reading this thread has reminded me of something that happened when I was in my early 20's. My manager at the time was in his late 50's and asked if I wanted to see some holiday photos. He then produced a photo of himself and his friends totally naked. It was a disgraceful abuse of power. He wanted to get a reaction from me and he knew there was nothing I could do about it. In the 1980's this behaviour would have been laughed off and I would have been accused of making a fuss about nothing. But that is how some men respond now when women complain about the comments they get in the street.

kingslayer

BrassicWoman wrote: »

troll poster, AngryBear. Best ignored.

I am not a troll though. I don't think what I said on my previous thread was anything that warranted a ban.

kingslayer

Btw I don't agree with harassment of women and I never claimed to harass women. If a guy approaches a woman, whether in a bar, club, in a supermarket, at the gym, in the street etc, the woman has every right to walk away or say she's not interested. If a woman stops and is receptive to conversation, I don't think that is harassment. It is only harassment when guys continue to pester a woman after she has said she's not interested. I have seen many a guy in clubs and bars who go over to a woman, get rejected and continue to follow her and talk to her in the hope she changes her mind. I do sympathise with women who can't leave the house (dressed up nicely or otherwise) without garnering attention and crude comments from persistent, pervy guys.

JustKeepSwimming_2

I'm unsure as to why a man would think its acceptable to approach a woman in some of the ways shown in the video.

I travel by bus a lot & that can be fun (not) at times. I've been approached by a man who sat beside me & said he really wanted to talk to me as I was so pretty, while leering at my chest (I was wearing an old fleece & jeans & wearing headphones). When I said politely that I was listening to my book he became quite aggressive & making out I was a rude princess who thought I was too good for him. He continued to rant at me about how ungrateful I was after he'd taken an interest in me, which turned into how I should be pleased someone had noticed an ugly cow like me....

Now maybe I should have played nicely & talked to a man I didn't want to talk to (he was at least 20 years older than me & wearing a football shirt so I didn't think we'd have loads in common), & stopped listening to my book. Maybe I should have pandered to a man whose only reason for talking to me was that he found me attractive (at least at first :rotfl:) & spent 30 minutes talking about whatever he wanted to talk about - but why should I have have to indulge some man simply so that I don't get a mouthful for politely declining his demand to talk to me.

Whoever said it was all about power is right IMHO.

This isn't meant as a man bashing post either - I know there are many men who treat women as equals & are horrified by what women have to put up with. But as most women know, sadly there is a sizeable group of men who continue to behave inappropriately.

Has anyone seen this? Interesting slant of the usual order of things....

Better_Days

JustKeepSwimming wrote: »

I'm unsure as to why a man would think its acceptable to approach a woman in some of the ways shown in the video.

I travel by bus a lot & that can be fun (not) at times. I've been approached by a man who sat beside me & said he really wanted to talk to me as I was so pretty, while leering at my chest (I was wearing an old fleece & jeans & wearing headphones). When I said politely that I was listening to my book he became quite aggressive & making out I was a rude princess who thought I was too good for him. He continued to rant at me about how ungrateful I was after he'd taken an interest in me, which turned into how I should be pleased someone had noticed an ugly cow like me....

Now maybe I should have played nicely & talked to a man I didn't want to talk to (he was at least 20 years older than me & wearing a football shirt so I didn't think we'd have loads in common), & stopped listening to my book. Maybe I should have pandered to a man whose only reason for talking to me was that he found me attractive (at least at first :rotfl:) & spent 30 minutes talking about whatever he wanted to talk about - but why should I have have to indulge some man simply so that I don't get a mouthful for politely declining his demand to talk to me.

Whoever said it was all about power is right IMHO.

This isn't meant as a man bashing post either - I know there are many men who treat women as equals & are horrified by what women have to put up with. But as most women know, sadly there is a sizeable group of men who continue to behave inappropriately.

Has anyone seen this? Interesting slant of the usual order of things....

Thanks JustKeepSwimming, so sorry to hear about your very unpleasant experience. The escalation you experienced is one of the reasons why the comments in the street are so unpleasant for many women. Why should a woman be faced with the choice of speaking to someone she is not interested in or risk facing verbal abuse or worse?

The public transport scenario is particularly nasty. A woman could be followed to home or work and further harassed. As you say it is all about power. It's also sad that some men seem to determine their self worth by their ability to engage with any woman they 'fancy'.

The video you linked to is fascinating. Very well thought through and executed. I think this is the sort of personal development material that schools could consider using.

j.e.j.

thorsoak wrote: »

And is that a plus point for your home town? I think not! No one should have to run a gauntlet!

You'd better thank goodness you never lived there, then. I can't imagine it's changed much! People just learned not to take anything seriously.

I can give loads of examples, but just to take one or two, you could be at the cash-point tapping your PIN number in, and you'd hear blokes shouting behind you "can I press YOUR buttons, dar-lin?!" :eek::rotfl:

Another (overheard) conversation in the pub, went something along the lines of:
Man to barmaid: If you didn't have feet, would you wear shoes..?
Barmaid: er.. no
Bloke: Why do you wear a bra then??
How he didn't get his beer poured over him I don't know..


If you were to get offended at every offensive thing, you'd spend a LOT of time and energy being angry. far better to laugh it off (assuming it's just banter) than to stamp your little feet and play the feminist card, which they'd laugh at anyway :rotfl:

trailingspouse

And that, j.e.j. is what we're talking about.

You seem to think it's funny, you seem to think it's 'just banter'. You're wrong.

Are we offended by it? Yes.
Are we angry? Yes.
Are we stamping our little feet? Gosh, infantilise the women why don't you.
Are we playing the feminist card? No, we're not playing.

But mostly we're just bored with it.

Here's a helpful hint - if you really find a woman attractive, and you really want to talk to her, talk about the weather. That's what normal non-pervy human beings talk about with strangers.

Georgiegirl256

j.e.j. wrote: »

You'd better thank goodness you never lived there, then. I can't imagine it's changed much! People just learned not to take anything seriously.

I can give loads of examples, but just to take one or two, you could be at the cash-point tapping your PIN number in, and you'd hear blokes shouting behind you "can I press YOUR buttons, dar-lin?!" :eek::rotfl:

Another (overheard) conversation in the pub, went something along the lines of:
Man to barmaid: If you didn't have feet, would you wear shoes..?
Barmaid: er.. no
Bloke: Why do you wear a bra then??
How he didn't get his beer poured over him I don't know..


If you were to get offended at every offensive thing, you'd spend a LOT of time and energy being angry. far better to laugh it off (assuming it's just banter) than to stamp your little feet and play the feminist card, which they'd laugh at anyway :rotfl:

I get what you're saying to a certain point, and some things you could laugh off, but those two examples are NOT just banter, and it's sad to think that anyone thinks that they are. They are comments to make Women feel uncomfortable and vulnerable.

Interesting film by the way JustKeepSwimming, really makes you think.

j.e.j.

trailingspouse wrote: »

And that, j.e.j. is what we're talking about.

You seem to think it's funny, you seem to think it's 'just banter'. You're wrong.

Are we offended by it? Yes.
Are we angry? Yes.
Are we stamping our little feet? Gosh, infantilise the women why don't you.
Are we playing the feminist card? No, we're not playing.

But mostly we're just bored with it.

Here's a helpful hint - if you really find a woman attractive, and you really want to talk to her, talk about the weather. That's what normal non-pervy human beings talk about with strangers.

I'll be honest with you, you learn to find it funny, or more accurately you learn to just laugh it off.

I live in a different area now, and thankfully this kind of stuff doesn't go on as much, if at all. But a lot worse does go on, in other places, and people do just have to grow up and get on with it.

Homeownertobe

JustKeepSwimming wrote: »

I travel by bus a lot & that can be fun (not) at times. I've been approached by a man who sat beside me & said he really wanted to talk to me as I was so pretty, while leering at my chest (I was wearing an old fleece & jeans & wearing headphones).

This enrages me. What you're wearing should have no bearing on unacceptable behaviour, but you seem to think that you wearing an old fleece means you're more of a victim than a woman wearing a low-cut top.

Frankly, it's that kind of attitude that helps continue to wider problem.