Female friend and Girlfriend

FatVonD

Edwardia wrote: »

Girlfriend is in the wrong.

Getting into a relationship with someone should never mean jettisoning friends, regardless of gender.

A person isn't property but all too often, women allow their insecurities and jealousy to swamp their rationality and try and dictate how the other person should behave, whom they should see etc.

I've been in relationships with women and I've also been the female friend of straight and bisexual men with girlfriends giving them grief so I've seen both sides.

There is nothing wrong with flirtation between friends if that's all it is.

However, IMO the going-behind-girlfriend's-back stuff IS wrong. Relationships are built on trust and honesty. So not telling her that you've reconciled with friend was wrong and yes it will make an insecure jealous woman add 2 + 2 and come up with 11.

Jealousy is not an attractive trait, however much jealous people try and say it means they care. Jealousy is them putting their insecurities ahead of loving you.

How is she in the wrong? She hasn't actually done anything except decide not to move in with the OP after all.

It wasn't the girlfriend that instigated the break in the friendship, it was the ex throwing a strop because the OP didn't hug her because he was with his GF.

The girlfriend has complained about the flirty, secret messages to the ex. I don't think that makes her insecure or jealous, the majority of people posting on this thread agree that they wouldn't be happy with it either.

If the GF wants/decides that she doesn't want to take the next step in a relationship with someone that wants to continue to send flirty messages to an ex then that is her perogative. By doing it in secret the OP has denied her the right to decide if she's happy with it or not and also put her in the position that she could have found out AFTER she moved in with him.

She's done nothing wrong, the fault lies with the OP.

Bit in bold, not just an 'insecure, jealous woman'. Most of the women on this thread have said they would be peed off, that doesn't make them, or the OP's GF 'insecure, jealous women' it makes them normal women whose boundaries are different to yours.

lostinrates

Edwardia wrote: »

Girlfriend is in the wrong.

Getting into a relationship with someone should never mean jettisoning friends, regardless of gender.

A person isn't property but all too often, women allow their insecurities and jealousy to swamp their rationality and try and dictate how the other person should behave, whom they should see etc.

I've been in relationships with women and I've also been the female friend of straight and bisexual men with girlfriends giving them grief so I've seen both sides.

There is nothing wrong with flirtation between friends if that's all it is.

However, IMO the going-behind-girlfriend's-back stuff IS wrong. Relationships are built on trust and honesty. So not telling her that you've reconciled with friend was wrong and yes it will make an insecure jealous woman add 2 + 2 and come up with 11.

Jealousy is not an attractive trait, however much jealous people try and say it means they care. Jealousy is them putting their insecurities ahead of loving you.

Friends can be jealous too. And I don't think its and act of friend ship to behave in a way that would put strain on a relationship or push boundaries for your friend's partner, but rather to support and nourish the relationship that is making your friend happy. Sometimes that means boundaries in a friend ship alter, as they might anyway with maturity or lifestyle change.

If people in a relationship have expressed flirtation makes them uncomfortable and agreed it, then flirtation that YOU see is harmless is not. Different relationships have different boundaries and they aren't necessarily right or wrong. I've had different relationship boundaries that have been right for those relationships but would be wrong in my current one.

With my husband I would be uncomfortable with the bikini/knickers text and would nt send one like that myself but the same comment in a crowded room bp might not make me uncomfortable. As it happens he went through a phase of two people sending him texts he found inappropriate earlier this year, which he showed me. His decision was simply not to reply to them. One was a work colleague and she left her job. The other is a friend who has stopped contacting either of us. He also had facebook contact from an old admirer fairly recently which he told me about and decided to ignore.

The funny thing is, I'm not that possessive at all, but would want the same boundaries for each of us!

Edwardia

I would never look at husband's phone or delve into his laptop. I have no idea whether he has !!!!!! mags or DVDs in his study. I think he's entitled to some privacy.

I know he keeps in touch with several female ex-colleagues. They call, text and email and vice versa. I've been in earshot and heard him call them darling, hun, sweetheart and gorgeous. Doesn't bother me. He loves me, he lives with me and if he goes out he tells me where he's going and with whom and keeps his phone on. I'm more concerned that he might drink (recovering alcoholic) than anything else.

Having been in relationships with women, the constant drama was a real downside. I don't like being told what to do at the best of times, but the whole relationship rules thing is a PITA.

If women were told by their partners that they shouldn't see their BFF (regardless of gender) for example, many would tell him to take a hike. But those same women will often try and dictate to him.

I have known one guy for fifteen years nearly. On one occasion his new girlfriend of two weeks threw a tantrum in public bc he was going out for a day with me which had been arranged for weeks.

On another occasion a different new gf got my number from his phone and called me when drunk at 4am and accused me of all sorts. There was nothing going on so I emailed him and told him abt it.

So when someone starts hiding stuff it's often bc they know if they are honest and tell their partner that they are friends with an ex they will get nagged. That she will see infidelity whhen there isn't any. And when partner is screaming I don't believe you, some men may feel that they might as well do what they are being accused of.

The most important things in a relationship are trust,honesty and respect. If you don't give each other that what's the point ?

If you go into every relationship not trusting someone, not giving them the benefit of the doubt and telling them that they cannot see X friend or you should be able to nose in their phone where's the trust and respect ?

lostinrates

Edwardia wrote: »

I would never look at husband's phone or delve into his laptop. I have no idea whether he has !!!!!! mags or DVDs in his study. I think he's entitled to some privacy.
my husband shows me his phone. I don't look at his lap top....couldn't of I wanted to its work's with lots of security on it, but he often logs me into it to show me something. He uses his facebook( I don't have it) on my ipad, so mine is logged in to his facebook. Then he calls me occasionally ( very occasionally, as he barely uses facebook himself) and says,...' Look at face book, look at what x has written' .

We get a fair bit of privacy, we don't live together weekdays.
I know he keeps in touch with several female ex-colleagues. They call, text and email and vice versa. I've been in earshot and heard him call them darling, hun, sweetheart and gorgeous. Doesn't bother me. He loves me, he lives with me and if he goes out he tells me where he's going and with whom and keeps his phone on. I'm more concerned that he might drink (recovering alcoholic) than anything else. my husband has a huge number if female friends, some of whom have become my friends to, most really. However just because the relationship with some has always been friends doesn't mean that all were happy to see him settle down with some one.

Having been in relationships with women, the constant drama was a real downside. I don't like being told what to do at the best of times, but the whole relationship rules thing is a PITA. well, good for you! I think that each relation ship should do what works for the people in it to be content.

If women were told by their partners that they shouldn't see their BFF (regardless of gender) for example, many would tell him to take a hike. But those same women will often try and dictate to him.this is not my personal experience

I have known one guy for fifteen years nearly. On one occasion his new girlfriend of two weeks threw a tantrum in public bc he was going out for a day with me which had been arranged for weeks.
On another occasion a different new gf got my number from his phone and called me when drunk at 4am and accused me of all sorts. There was nothing going on so I emailed him and told him abt it. neither of these are necessarily because you are female. ( though the women certainly handled it poorly). It might be that they found your boundaries inappropriate or that they simply didn't like you.

So when someone starts hiding stuff it's often bc they know if they are honest and tell their partner that they are friends with an ex they will get nagged. That she will see infidelity whhen there isn't any. And when partner is screaming I don't believe you, some men may feel that they might as well do what they are being accused of.

The most important things in a relationship are trust,honesty and respect. If you don't give each other that what's the point ?

If you go into every relationship not trusting someone, not giving them the benefit of the doubt and telling them that they cannot see X friend or you should be able to nose in their phone where's the trust and respect ?

I think you last paragraphs I'm in agreement with. If you have to hide stuff from a partner that you feel is honest then there are obviously problems with trust, honesty and respect.

Its funny because I wouldn't dream of telling by husband who he couldn't see ( though I do ask him not to bring one friend home because he's so hard to get rid of....invite him for a weekend and he's here two weeks later...) but we have no issue whatsoever using each other's technology etc. because our boundaries are obviously different to yours. And that's fair enough, what makes something right and work depends on the people and the circumstances.

Pollycat

Edwardia wrote: »

I would never look at husband's phone or delve into his laptop. I have no idea whether he has !!!!!! mags or DVDs in his study. I think he's entitled to some privacy.

I know he keeps in touch with several female ex-colleagues. They call, text and email and vice versa. I've been in earshot and heard him call them darling, hun, sweetheart and gorgeous. Doesn't bother me. He loves me, he lives with me and if he goes out he tells me where he's going and with whom and keeps his phone on. I'm more concerned that he might drink (recovering alcoholic) than anything else.
But did he 'date' any of those ex-colleagues?
If he didn't, then the comparison is not the same as the OP's situation.

Having been in relationships with women, the constant drama was a real downside. I don't like being told what to do at the best of times, but the whole relationship rules thing is a PITA.
Is this relevant?

If women were told by their partners that they shouldn't see their BFF (regardless of gender) for example, many would tell him to take a hike. But those same women will often try and dictate to him.

I have known one guy for fifteen years nearly. On one occasion his new girlfriend of two weeks threw a tantrum in public bc he was going out for a day with me which had been arranged for weeks.
But we are not talking about a 'new girlfriend of 2 weeks', are we?
We're talking about an 18 month relationship.
A relationship during which the so-called friend (i.e. the 'new girlfriend of 2 weeks' in your example) threw a strop (for what seems like a pretty trivial incident) and didn't speak to the OP for 6 months.
We're talking about the OP not telling his girlfriend (of 18 months) that he's been back in touch with this friend.
Hardly the same scenario, is it?

On another occasion a different new gf got my number from his phone and called me when drunk at 4am and accused me of all sorts. There was nothing going on so I emailed him and told him abt it.
The OP's girlfriend is not 'new'.

So when someone starts hiding stuff it's often bc they know if they are honest and tell their partner that they are friends with an ex they will get nagged. That she will see infidelity whhen there isn't any. And when partner is screaming I don't believe you, some men may feel that they might as well do what they are being accused of.
This is not the case.
The girlfriend knew they were friends.

The most important things in a relationship are trust,honesty and respect. If you don't give each other that what's the point ?
Exactly!
So where was the honesty from the OP when he restarted contact with this friend but omitted to tell his girlfriend that?

If you go into every relationship not trusting someone, not giving them the benefit of the doubt and telling them that they cannot see X friend or you should be able to nose in their phone where's the trust and respect ?
I can't see anywhere that the OP's girlfriend didn't trust him from the start of the relationship.

I can't see where she said the OP couldn't see his friend.

Yes, not much trust and respect from the OP towards his girlfriend as far as I can see.

A lot of your post is totally irrelevant to the OP's situation.
I've been commenting purely on my opinions about what the OP has told us.

Your points may be very valid in another situation but - imho - not in comparison with the OP's.

FBaby

But did he 'date' any of those ex-colleagues?
If he didn't, then the comparison is not the same as the OP's situation.

I personally don't see how this makes such a huge difference. If anything, I think I would feel more secure if they had dated before because it means they've tried and realised it wasn't right, rather then always wondering 'what if'.

duchy

FBaby wrote: »

Well, I didn't conclude that is what happened, I think there was a big misunderstanding that day. To me, it doesn't make sense that if you do have feelings for a friends, you are all happy with the girlfriend, showing no issues with the relationship until 6 months later.

That'd be the same six months she was refusing to talk to him ? Sorry but in my world friends don't not talk to people for months -That isn't friendship -friends communicate


She is showing a lack of trust in him if she couldn't accept his response above and deciding that it was innapropriate. It wasn't too him. There is a difference between saying that she trusts him that this sort of banter is part of their relationship and is in no way indication that there is more between them, but that it does make her feel uncomfortable and would he mind if he kept it down a bit, rather than saying that it was innapropriate, which is a matter of opinion.



'.

I'm not sure[ I see the person who keeps a light bantering friendship as the same person who holds a grudge for six months . I wonder if that is common behaviour for her as the OP didn't seem to indicate it was ridiculous or childish or even unexpected for her to not speak to him for such a long time. Very odd behaviour for an adult woman /B]

duchy

I think you are confusing self respect with jealousy.
In every successful relationship there are clearly defined lines of acceptable behaviour. Where the line is drawn depends entirely on the couple involved.
As a relationship progresses a couple learn what is and isn't acceptable. So in your very unrelated examples involving new couples the lines weren't yet drawn -but in an eighteen month relations where the couple are considering moving in together a lot more has been defined and accepted.
My partner has no problem with me going away with the girls for a few days. He doesn't have a jealous bone in his body -equally he has gone away without me several times and stayed with his late ex-partner's sister who was single, attractive and flirty-and fond of him but I didn't have a problem with it because I know he has the same standards that I do -and neither of us have anything to worry about. However I have friends whose husbands hate these girls trips -despite the fact they go off with boys to play golf,or whatever and come across as jealous or possessive. If my partner was like that- he wouldn't BE my partner

The OP crossed a line in the view of many posters here -as well as his girlfriend as she's now rethinking moving in with him at this point-and in my view she's right. Not because it was a really terrible thing to do but because it showed that the OP has different standards and expectations within a committed relationship to her (or possibly a double standard if he wouldn't be happy with HER sending suggestive texts). Until she is sure they are on the same page it'd be madness to move in with him.

People are people "women" don't get jealous-PEOPLE get jealous. You have some quite alien to me issues about gender but then as you've mentioned once or twice you've dabbled in lesbian relationships and from my own observations the jealousy vibe can be a strong dynamic in those relationships -maybe I've just mixed with the wrong couples but it does seem possessiveness is a stronger element -maybe there's a bit more of the "you and me against the world Babe" dynamic going on which will settle down once a same sex relationship is considered as unremarkable as an opposite sex relationship (we're getting there but not there yet) and people (both with in and outside ) don't feel the need to even mention the gender of the person they are in a relationship with (many are already there - some like you Edwardia are not yet).

I think the OP should consider himself lucky his girlfriend takes their relationship seriously enough to put the moving in on hold. She is giving him the chance to think about where his priorities are in the relationship before committing further-We'd probably have a lot fewer painful posts if more people did this before moving in with their partners.

Edwardia wrote: »

Girlfriend is in the wrong.

Getting into a relationship with someone should never mean jettisoning friends, regardless of gender.

A person isn't property but all too often, women allow their insecurities and jealousy to swamp their rationality and try and dictate how the other person should behave, whom they should see etc.

I've been in relationships with women and I've also been the female friend of straight and bisexual men with girlfriends giving them grief so I've seen both sides.

There is nothing wrong with flirtation between friends if that's all it is.

However, IMO the going-behind-girlfriend's-back stuff IS wrong. Relationships are built on trust and honesty. So not telling her that you've reconciled with friend was wrong and yes it will make an insecure jealous woman add 2 + 2 and come up with 11.

Jealousy is not an attractive trait, however much jealous people try and say it means they care. Jealousy is them putting their insecurities ahead of loving you.

FBaby

That'd be the same six months she was refusing to talk to him ? Sorry but in my world friends don't not talk to people for months -That isn't friendship -friends communicate

introduced my girlfriend to my female friend early on in the relationship. She was initially excited and happy for me and they both got on well, although my girlfriend said that she was a bit unsure of my female friend from the off. Don't know why.

Then at a party almost a year ago my friend walked out angrily and didn't reply to my text or calls later that night. When we spoke weeks later she said that I hadn't hugged her at the party when she arrived, as I normally do. I was shocked and confused, and felt she was being very childish. She didn't say it was anything to do with my girlfriend, but I suspected it was so we never spoke for 6 months.

To me, the whole thing doesn't make sense. All happy and dandy for 6 months, then a tantrum just because of a hug...

The way I see it, there is two ways about it: the friend was pretending for 6 months that she was happy until she realised that the relationship was getting serious and she was not going to get OP back. It all came out that night. She has now either moved on, or is a very determined lady hoping to try her chance again....

Or, she really has no interest in OP beyond friendship, was genuinely happy for him to have found someone, however, girlfriend is jealous of friendship and as the relationship evolves, starts to make it clear to friend that she doesn't appreciate her friendship with OP. She tries to tell OP, he doesn't get it, she thinks she is well off of both of them. Then recently decides that she does miss the friendship and wonders what he is up to, hope that now that girlfriend is more settled, she will chill out with the friendship.

I have known of both case scenarios. Who knows which it is in this case.

lostinrates

FBaby wrote: »

To me, the whole thing doesn't make sense. All happy and dandy for 6 months, then a tantrum just because of a hug...

The way I see it, there is two ways about it: the friend was pretending

I don't think it has to be 'pretending'. I think that the way we feel can evolve and develop and change. Sometimes we only relies we've been pretending to ourselves, other times we are pretending, sometimes things just...change.


Also there is sometimes jealousy with no relationship intend behind it, just in friendships. I think its often fear that the friend ship will change when the friend is not 'ready' for it to, or fears they will be left behind. This even happens in friendship groups of immature people. IMO its something that's possible to be quite separate from the gender issue.