PCM - Are they an Approved Operator???

bazster

Oh that's beautiful!

Dear Mr ******,

Further to your enquiry I can confirm that I have visited the site and can confirm that your car was parked in an area that PCM patrol. This scheme has been in place since 2011 and PCM have been responsible for patrolling the area since then. The scheme has recently been reviewed and residents are going to be issued with new permits, however, the scheme is continuous and therefore PCM should be patrolling the area.

The Housing Department has introduced controlled parking in areas where residents are unable to park due to non-residents parking on the estate. Our car parks are for resident and visitor parking only and PCM enforce this. PCM operate the service free of charge. We do not pay for their service and they do not pay the Council. PCM keep all monies received from the Penalty Charge Notices they issue. Thankee for confirming the true nature of the charges.

***** Council has a contract with PCM however I am not obliged to provide you with a copy of our contract with PCM. If you wish to request a copy I would advise you to submit a freedom of information request via email to foirequests@********* who will consider your request. To which they are obliged to accede. I understand that A2 Dominion also have a contract with PCM as they have properties on the estate but you would need to contact them direct for any further information regarding this.

We are aware that PCM are no longer part of BPA but that is not a requirement of our contract with them.

When a driver parks in an area it is the drivers responsibility to check for signage to ensure they are permitted to park in the area. The signage on the road where your car was parked was clear and your car was parked only a few metres from a PCM sign. The Council does not get involved with disputes over PCNs issued and you will need to follow the appeals process with PCM if you wish to appeal against the penalty charge notice. Oh, thank you again!

Regards


*** ****
Tenancy Management Team Manager
Landlord Services[/QUOTE]

Strong complaint to your councillors is in order. You have leverage with councillors (they want your vote) and in my experience when a councillor says "jump" council officers reply "how high?"

Redx

excellent points

a PPC cannot issue or enforce penalty charge notices, clearly they dont understand the difference between the words penalty and parking

maybe you can ask them why they are sanctioning penalty charge notices by a private parking company ?

ask them if its a legal contract between the council and PCM if it has the word penalty on it ?

also ask them if you can quote this breach in court if it came to that, as an official source ?

Bazza1975

But hasn't this person from the Council just made a typo? The ticket stuck on the car says it's a Parking Charge. There a pic of the PCN on post #14 on this thread. Or can I genuinely run with this?

Redx

they may have made a typo but as you asked for an investigation then they should have checked their reply and ensured all the correct legal words were used

they would not show you the contract, but they have indicated that penalty charges are used, so if this is true they are in breach as a private parking company has issued the pcn

this private parking company know they cannot use the legal terms PENALTY or FINE so used PARKING charge notice because they cannot issue a PENALTY

so the PPC is apparently using the correct terminology but the council isnt (which is typical of councils, but at least they didnt call it a fine)

so you have at least 2 forms of attack here, having a go at the council who may or may not have this contract they referred to , which also seems to indicate PENALTY charge notices

and you have the fact you have a PCN from this PPC who are members of the IPC, so need to appeal the PCN with them and the IAS as part of the IPC

do not confuse or merge the two, its 2 separate issues

Bazza1975

Redx wrote: »

they may have made a typo but as you asked for an investigation then they should have checked their reply and ensured all the correct legal words were used

they would not show you the contract, but they have indicated that penalty charges are used, so if this is true they are in breach as a private parking company has issued the pcn

this private parking company know they cannot use the legal terms PENALTY or FINE so used PARKING charge notice because they cannot issue a PENALTY

so the PPC is apparently using the correct terminology but the council isnt (which is typical of councils, but at least they didnt call it a fine)

so you have at least 2 forms of attack here, having a go at the council who may or may not have this contract they referred to , which also seems to indicate PENALTY charge notices

and you have the fact you have a PCN from this PPC who are members of the IPC, so need to appeal the PCN with them and the IAS as part of the IPC

do not confuse or merge the two, its 2 separate issues

Ok thanks. I will raise the points you made in post #83 in my reply back to them.

Haven't appealed to PCM yet as still waiting for the NTK from them. Am expecting it towards the end of next week as 28 days will have passed by then.

bazster

It might be put down as an error but for the context. This dope has made it clear to you that the purpose of engaging the PPC is to deter non-residents from parking. That it's a deterrent is entirely consistent with it being a penalty, and whichever word you prefer it's unenforceable at law.

Complain to your councillors.

Bazza1975

bazster wrote: »

It might be put down as an error but for the context. This dope has made it clear to you that the purpose of engaging the PPC is to deter non-residents from parking. That it's a deterrent is entirely consistent with it being a penalty, and whichever word you prefer it's unenforceable at law.

Complain to your councillors.

Should I still reply to this person at the Council, where she may in fact retract what she earlier said? Or just go straight to my local Councillor, forwarding the contents of the email I was sent?

bazster

She can't retract it, you have a copy of it.

You are not complaining specifically about what she said (she has been helpfully honest), what you are complaining about is that the council is harassing and penalising residents with unlawful charges.

Bazza1975

bazster wrote: »

She can't retract it, you have a copy of it.

You are not complaining specifically about what she said (she has been helpfully honest), what you are complaining about is that the council is harassing and penalising residents with unlawful charges.

So should I still reply to the email from the Council with the points raised by Redx? Or just go straight to the local Councillors?

We're not residents of that estate (that the vehicle wasn't even parked in in the first place!!)by the way. It was parked there because the driver works in the school opposite where it was parked. Not that it makes any difference I know.

fisherjim

Hmm! some typo not once but twice, she clearly does not know what she is on about, and if a council wants to impose penalty charges I believe they have to apply for a Traffic Regulation Order which they clearly do not have here.
These officious numpties are very keen to point the finger at us mere mortals get stuck into them I would!