PCM - Are they an Approved Operator???

Bazza1975

Can someone please read through my draft email to my local councillors and advise if I need to change anything before sending it off?

Bazza1975

I've added something to the bottom of the email...

"With the above in mind, I would therefore respectfully request that you contact the Landowners or PCM directly and have this highly inflated and unjustified "invoice" cancelled. "

Is it worth a shot requesting this?

Bazza1975

Ok, I'm not waiting any more - i'm going to send it.

Bazza1975

So, I've received an email back from one of the local Councillors...

"Can you let me have some more details regarding this i.e date, car reg, pcn/invoice number etc and I'll see if anything can be done although councillors have very limited powers in case relating to parking. Could you also advise me of your relative's name and address as I prefer to correspond directly with residents or refer them to the appropriate ward councillor if they are not living in ******.

My understanding is that the whole of the ***** estate falls within the controlled parking zone and that this includes ***** Road as ***** Court is on *****. The CPZ has been in operation for nearly 2 yaers and was established following full local consultation with overwhelming support from the residents of the ***** estate. ******* School were consulted over this CPZ as they were for the **** ***** CPZ which was implemented around the same time.

I'll pass on your concerns regarding the contractor to our Parking services department for their comments"

So now he's saying his "understanding" is the road before you turn into where the car was parked is CPZ??!! As far as I'm aware, CPZ is in the area, but it ends pretty much as soon as you turn to the road before you go into the Housing Estate where PCM operate.

Also, aren't CPZ controlled by the Council/Traffic Wardens? This is different to parking on Private Land is it not?

Bazza1975

This is what I'm going to send back...

I think you have perhaps misunderstood where the vehicle was parked and where the CPZ's are. Apart from probably about the first 4-5 metres of ***** Road (from ***** Road), there are NO restrictions on ***** Road. If their are, there are certainly no signs to say so. On the School side of ***** Road, their is the standard "School Keep Clear" road markings, other than that there is nothing at all. I have attached a map of the CPZ's in the area (downloaded from the **** Council Website), which clearly shows ***** Road and all roads off of ***** Road are NOT in CPZ.

The vehicle was parked at the very entrance to ***** Court (see googlemaps link below) which is just off ***** Road and takes you in to ****** Road where PCM operate. There is a sign about halfway up ****** Court before you enter in to the Housing Estate to say that this area is "controlled/managed" by Parking Control Management Ltd (PCM). If the whole length of ***** Court is covered by PCM, then the signage should be at the ENTRANCE to the road, not half way up. Also there are no road markings on this Road at all to state specifically where the restrictions are or start. There is also nothing to delineate where Council Highway changes to (presumably) private land. This incredibly mis-leading to any motorist looking to park in the area.

hxxps://www.google.com/maps/@51.51226,-0.325584,3a,75y,266.45h,66.59t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1siDkwSl7HvnYnL4Q7IRCDqQ!2e0

I think I'm right in saying that CPZ's are enforced by the the Local Council/Traffic Wardens. The vehicle was NOT "ticketed" by a Traffic Warden. Yet Ms Cnudde stated the following...

"PCM keep all monies received from the Penalty Charge Notices they issue."

"The Council does not get involved with disputes over PCNs issued and you will need to follow the appeals process with PCM if you wish to appeal against the penalty charge notice."

As I'm sure you are aware, it is illegal for PCM to issue "Penalty" Charge Notices. It is unenforceable at law. Therefore I would like to ask you why Ealing Council are sanctioning "Penalty" Charge Notices by a Private Parking Company? Is it a legal contract between Ealing Council and PCM if it has the word "Penalty" on it? Can I quote this breach in court if it came to that, as an official source?

So now that I have explained again about the "restrictions and non-restrictions" in the area where the vehicle was parked, perhaps you could look in to this a bit more thoroughly.

The PCN Number is *******. I request that you DO NOT share my name or any personal details with PCM when enquiring.

The driver and myself live in the ***** Ward (I checked this before emailing you). We live in *** *****. As you (and your 2 colleagues) are my Councillors and represent the area we live and work, I would hope you take this situation as seriously as I am, and try not to "brush it under the carpet".

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Bazza1975

Going to add this in to my response to my Councillor...

"The plain and simple fact of the matter is, a £100 "invoice" to park a car in a road/area that is NOT clearly marked or sign posted is COMPLETELY unjustified and unenforceable. And if you allow this kind of blatant daylight robbery to continue, you are doing a disservice to the people that vote you in to Office."

Bazza1975

Starting to feel a bit paranoid now and that I'm doing this alone.

The lady at the Council is not budging, see email below...

"Firstly I apologise for the error in my previous email. PCM actually issue ‘parking charge notices’ and not penalty charge notices as I stated in my previous email.

I can also clarify that the parking enforcement was introduced on the **** ***** Estate due to residents being unable to park their cars due to the high number of non-residents parking on the estate. The issue Mr ***** mentioned about the driveways in ****** Road is a separate matter which the council is currently resolving but this is not linked to your issue or the reason why there is parking control outside ***** Court.

PCM aim to patrol our estates regularly however the Council does not stipulate how regular this should be therefore it may be that when your car was previously parked on the estate it was not at a time that PCM had operatives in the area patrolling and issuing parking charge notices."

So I'm sending back the following...

"The vehicle was not parked "in the estate". It was not parked "in a car park". It was parked at the very ENTRANCE to ***** Court, BEFORE you reach or see any signage. There are NO road markings or signage anywhere at the ENTRANCE to ****** Court tell you that you are on Private Land or in Residential parking! Therefore it is totally UNCLEAR and mis-leading!!

If the car was parked beyond the signage and in the estate where their are signs, car parks and road markings EVERYWHERE, then fine, you could argue the driver was at fault. However, you've obviously seen the pictures of where it was parked and where the signage is. It's almost like the sign has been put deliberately halfway up the road to catch people out!! How is that acceptable? Why is it not at the beginning of the road? I'm certain (legally) that is where it should be, to make it clear to the motorist!

I will take this further, and I have hi-lighted this scandalous money making scheme to the Local Councillors. You cannot honestly think it is acceptable for such mis-leading information that can cost an unsuspecting motorist who is only going to her place a work (a school across the road) £100!!! It is daylight robbery, plain and simple! It's indefensible and completely unjustified!

As I said in my previous email, I fail to see that if the vehicle was parked 5 metres back around the corner in ***** Road that there are no restrictions, yet as soon as your tyre touches ***** Court, it will cost you £100 to park there!! How can **** Council or PCM justify that??"

Am expecting the NTK this week...

Redx

I think I would be adding that if this goes to court you would be calling them to the court as a "witness" and using their paperwork (or lack of it) in order to show any misleading demarcation between council roads and private roads due to inadequate signage and road markings designating where the changes occur

maybe expand on this aspect a lot more but just putting in my ten pennorth as I am sure they wont want their paperwork in court, nor wanting to go to court on your behalf in order to explain to a judge where the demarcations take place, either on the roads , the signage, or the involvement of a PPC enforcing tickets on possibly public roads

create enough fuss and you may get smething done, may not, but its all grist for the mill

the trick in any argument is using their own words against them, backing it up with common sense

well done so far as you already had one apology

Bazza1975

Redx wrote: »

I think I would be adding that if this goes to court you would be calling them to the court as a "witness" and using their paperwork (or lack of it) in order to show any misleading demarcation between council roads and private roads due to inadequate signage and road markings designating where the changes occur

maybe expand on this aspect a lot more but just putting in my ten pennorth as I am sure they wont want their paperwork in court, nor wanting to go to court on your behalf in order to explain to a judge where the demarcations take place, either on the roads , the signage, or the involvement of a PPC enforcing tickets on possibly public roads

create enough fuss and you may get smething done, may not, but its all grist for the mill

the trick in any argument is using their own words against them, backing it up with common sense

well done so far as you already had one apology

Ok thanks Red, I will try and add that in nicely. :-)

Was also going to put the following...

PCM are not the Landowners. The figure of £100 is completely made up. The Landowner nor PCM have made a "loss" by the vehicle being parked where it was. A contract hasn't been agreed to between the driver and PCM. Therefore legally they cannot enforce this "invoice".

Or should that be saved for the appeal process?

Bazza1975

This ok for the ending of the email...?

"PCM are not the Landowners. The figure of £100 is completely made up. The Landowner nor PCM have made a "loss" by the vehicle being parked where it was. Therefore, legally, they cannot enforce this "invoice".

Rest assured, if this goes to court, I WILL be calling ***** Council to the court as a "witness" and using your paperwork in order to show any demarcation between Council roads and Private roads due to inadequate signage and road markings designating where the changes occur."