Akward Situation...

Lovelyjoolz

quidsy wrote: »

Really? I am married to a non UK national & everyone in his country change if legally married. 3 of my besties are from different non english speaking countries & they all do. What countries don't?

Not sure I can give you a comprehensive list but here goes:
All the Arabic states
Belgium
Cambodia
Spain
Portugal
Netherlands
Argentina
Chile
China - it is actually illegal to do so in China
Malaysia
Iran
France
Ethiopia
Canada - in fact, in Quebec the law does not allow an immediate name change after marriage - you have to apply to the courts with a valid reason
Greece
Iceland
Italy
Korea
And all Islamic countries and their adherents around the world (it is illegal under islamic law)

This might not be 80%, but it's probably not far off.

It's a predominately Christian following because of the whole "women are soul-less creatures" thing.

It is becoming less common to change a name in America also. Well, amongst the educated anyway. This is probably led by the fact that Doctorates and other higher degrees are not transferable. For instance, if you got your PhD before marriage and your doctorate was issued in the name Dr Maidenname, you are not allowed to call yourself Dr Marriedname after marriage. You can be Mrs Marriedname but you cannot use the PhD. Most doctorate holders in the states will retain their maiden name because of this.

quidsy wrote: »

But anyway, culturally we (UK) have always done this, it is not required by law to do so but any women choose to do it, they do not see it as much of an issue as you do.

The "Tradition" label is not a valid argument for anything. There are many traditions that have fortunately been stamped out. Traditionally and man was allowed to beat his wife with a stick as long as it wasn't any wider than his thumb... glad that one no longer applies!

quidsy wrote: »

I personally dislike seeing kids with different names to their mothers or fathers, for right or wrong it makes me think "chav". I also immensly dislike the word "partner" urgh, no he is either your boyfriend or husband, no need to make up another word for it.

Those are nothing but your own prejudices and it's beyond unfair to judge someone purely on the basis of their name. Their culture could be one of those listed above where it's not "tradition" to change their name and yet you are going to judge them for it?

Lovelyjoolz

Soleil_lune wrote: »

Yep, rightly or wrongly, I also hate multiple surnames within a family. A woman I know has 5 children, and including her and her recent 'boyfriend,' there are FIVE different surnames in the current family line-up. (She has a different one to her boyfriend, so that's two, and her 5 children have 3 different surnames between them: all different to hers!)

This wouldn't be a problem if children were given their mother's name instead of the father's. I don't understand why they don't.

Soleil_lune wrote: »

Like I said, why bother marrying a man, if you can't be arsed to take his surname?

Really???? You think that the ONLY point of marriage is so that you can change your name???

Your name is possibly the very last thing on the list of "good reasons to get married". If indeed it appears on the list at all!

quidsy

Not sure I can give you a comprehensive list but here goes:

Most of those are from countries that have cultural & traditionally never changed name after marriage. Ours is a country that traditionally & culturally have. So which one is valid?

The "Tradition" label is not a valid argument for anything. There are many traditions that have fortunately been stamped out. Traditionally and man was allowed to beat his wife with a stick as long as it wasn't any wider than his thumb... glad that one no longer applies!

It's a predominately Christian following because of the whole "women are soul-less creatures" thing.

Pull your neck in. Many of the countries you have listed have still got terrible womens & human rights records so hardly bastions of "progress" for women. We have the choice to change our names or not, many countries in your list do not give women even that option. I always prefer a choice.

Those are nothing but your own prejudices and it's beyond unfair to judge someone purely on the basis of their name.

Fair or unfair it is my view.

Their culture could be one of those listed above where it's not "tradition" to change their name and yet you are going to judge them for it?

I live in England, I can tell a chav when I see one

lostinrates

Lovelyjoolz wrote: »

Not sure I can give you a comprehensive list but here goes:
All the Arabic states
Belgium
Cambodia
Spain
Portugal
Netherlands
Argentina
Chile
China - it is actually illegal to do so in China
Malaysia
Iran
France
Ethiopia
Canada - in fact, in Quebec the law does not allow an immediate name change after marriage - you have to apply to the courts with a valid reason
Greece
Iceland
Italy
Korea
And all Islamic countries and their adherents around the world (it is illegal under islamic law)

This might not be 80%, but it's probably not far off.

It's a predominately Christian following because of the whole "women are soul-less creatures" thing.

It is becoming less common to change a name in America also. Well, amongst the educated anyway. This is probably led by the fact that Doctorates and other higher degrees are not transferable. For instance, if you got your PhD before marriage and your doctorate was issued in the name Dr Maidenname, you are not allowed to call yourself Dr Marriedname after marriage. You can be Mrs Marriedname but you cannot use the PhD. Most doctorate holders in the states will retain their maiden name because of this.



The "Tradition" label is not a valid argument for anything. There are many traditions that have fortunately been stamped out. Traditionally and man was allowed to beat his wife with a stick as long as it wasn't any wider than his thumb... glad that one no longer applies!




Those are nothing but your own prejudices and it's beyond unfair to judge someone purely on the basis of their name. Their culture could be one of those listed above where it's not "tradition" to change their name and yet you are going to judge them for it?

Well, there is a point I disagree on, I think some traditions are useful and tell us something, and others are beautiful. Others are obsolete. The name choosing option seems to offer all their options doesn't it? As anyone can be called almost anything the subject is sort of......moot, no?

quidsy

This wouldn't be a problem if children were given their mother's name instead of the father's. I don't understand why they don't.

You have the CHOICE to give your children whatever surname you want. That is the beauty of choice. You can choose to be tradtional or you can choose to follow your own path.

See how that works?

jaylee3

duchy wrote: »

There have always been immigrants - My grandparents and their siblings all landed in the UK in 1900 -some of the siblings stayed and settled in the UK some moved on to America and Australia all started their own businesses and made good lives from themselves and their kids. One of the sons ended up a multimillionaire.

Other side of the family My Mum came to London from Dublin in the 50s -made her life here -worked married had kids -

I don't think any of my "immigrant" relatives ever stopped anyone from getting married though (but they did pay taxes all their lives, created employment for others, served in the British forces in WW2 and so on)

:T Well said.

heartbreak_star

quidsy wrote: »

You have the CHOICE to give your children whatever surname you want. That is the beauty of choice. You can choose to be tradtional or you can choose to follow your own path.

True, but I refer to an earlier post I made:

I do ponder if some women do feel forced into it by "tradition" or by groom/families.

It seems to be the "expected" thing, to change your name.

HBS x

quidsy

I do ponder if some women do feel forced into it by "tradition" or by groom/families.

It seems to be the "expected" thing, to change your name.

It is possible, if a women feels that much pressure over it then she prolly has much larger problems in her life.

But are you saying that you think it is better to have no choice at all?

Lovelyjoolz

quidsy wrote: »

I live in England, I can tell a chav when I see one

Ha! That made me laugh out loud! I wonder if it's a purely British skill to be able to spot a chav? Then again, the Americans just apply the label "redneck", rather than chav, but it's the same principle.

quidsy wrote: »

Pull your neck in. Many of the countries you have listed have still got terrible womens & human rights records so hardly bastions of "progress" for women.

Ha! Thought you'd call me on the "soul-less" comment. Would have been shocked if you hadn't. I threw it in for effect because it amused me when I found it while googling which countries don't do the name-change. This is the passage, it was on a website I wandered too explaining why, in Islam, it is Haram (illegal) to change your name to your husbands':

"In Christianity, women were considered soul-less creatures. Then Church finally decided they have souls but they are still property and not human beings. So that is why when they got married, they gave up their last name and went under the name of their husbands just like any other proper he would purchase. That is how this practice came to be, you are property of your husband that is why he has you under his name like all his other properties."

Apparently, the "soulless women" idea was a Catholic doctrine up until the seventeenth century, but there are lots of sites that dispute that. On the otherhand, there are lots of sites that still preach it (US fundamentalists, mainly). It made me laugh anyway :rotfl:

I agree 100% with you that it is, and should be, a choice. And I'm all for choice.

I still think that changing your name is stupid. To quote a wise woman on here "Fair or unfair it is my view."
(where is the tongue-in-cheek smiley anyway??)

quidsy

I still think that changing your name is stupid. To quote a wise woman on here "Fair or unfair it is my view."
(where is the tongue-in-cheek smiley anyway??)

That's fair enough. I never even think about it, I use maiden in work but for home, holiday, bank stuff I use married. It helps with travel, esp through husbands country where travelling alone with a child requires paperwork to prove you have other parents permission & smooths things over with visas & whatnot, he would not have been able to settle here 10 years ago had we not been married, and both having same name stopped alot of guff at embassies etc. So much much more to it than just getting hitched.

In can see both pov but I don't care one jot what others do, marry or not, change name or not, I'm living mine the way I see fit