Relation using our home as a commuting crash pad.

Mojisola

duchy wrote: »

That is easy to say - however when that culture has a far stronger respect and deference for the elder members of the family and they are deemed to have authority than British culture has it really isn't that easy to be the first to stand up and be counted.

Even in British culture there are certain MILs or stepmothers who dictate to the rest of the family-let alone a culture with a far stronger history of elder authority.

(Speaking as someone whose parents also defied their own cultures' authority to be together -It's not easy)

I don't think anyone would expect it to be easy but if the option is for this woman to spend the rest of her life living in this way, the pain of changing will be worth it.

Herongull

If you are so afraid of confrontation, why not ask your husband to talk to her? He doesn't owe her anything and she has invaded his home.

Agree in advance what if any help you can offer her eg one/two nights per week. But he needs to make it clear that if she doesn't comply with these conditions then she can't stay at all.

Molly needs to reclaim her life and home from the stepmother but you can't fight her battles you can only fight your own.

Grumpypoo

Amanda65 wrote: »

I think it's completely unreasonable for your relative to expect to stay with you, despite the fact she gave you a home as a student. Your student time had a limit - this could go on for years.

I would definitely check your tenancy agreement with regards to occupancy and ensure you are not breaking any rules, even if only for your own peace of mind; as others have said this may offer you an easy way to bring up the conversation and limit the amount of time she stays. I am not saying it is right, but it is completely normal for my extended family to ignore such rules and would not understand what you are making a fuss about. Even when driving they will stuff four adults into the back seat of a car with a couple of kids on laps for good measure. If they get stopped it is 'because people are interfering, just want fines' etc. The way some people treat the speed limit is how they see the tenancy agreement and as someone going 31MPH in a thirty mile is 'not really breaking the law' one extra person in a house is the same thing. Unless you report to the landlord they will never find out.

Unlike some others, I do not think it acceptable either that she sets up camp in your living room. Where does she keep her personal belongings (clothes, toiletries etc.) ? She keeps them at her parents house and basically lives out of a suitcase.

You may hate confrontation and I appreciate the cultural expectations but as far as I see it you either have to say something or put up with the situation for ............ well who knows how long.

Out of interest, when you posted originally what did you expect from people? You have been given options as to how to address the situation but seem unable / unwilling to take any of them on board. I really do not know. Maybe I wanted everyone to just say 'put up with it and don't say anything'. The sensible answer for your relative would be to move to a job nearer home but if she likes living in London / has friends local to work etc. she is going to have to pay for the priveledge. Could she not rent a room near work or share with a friend? What did she do before you moved to where you are now?

Edit - seen your last post re what she did before

Please see the answer in red

dktreesea

Grumpypoo wrote: »

She commuted a few days and occasionally stayed with friends & other relations. Someone else asked about if she can go to her siblings - they are even further north than her parents.


I spoke to an uncle last night: he said basically the step mother announced the daughter is living with us now as is our duty(i.e. my husband and I) . The background he says is that the parents are happy for her full salary to go towards paying the household bills and have her live her life to take care of them.

So does that mean the daughter can't go back to her own house to live because the step mother doesn't want her there anymore?

Is your cousin older than you? I don't see how it is "your duty" to support and provide for her. She's neither your grandparent, your mum or dad, nor your younger sibling.

Grumpypoo

duchy wrote: »

I think you need to stop talking to the rest of the family and talk to her. You are both getting screwed over by the cultural expectations of the rest of the family and instead of tiptoeing around her you need to sort out what you both want and the best way to achieve it.

Worst scenario is she takes offence.....and doesn't stay anymore- best is you find a way to give you what you both want (or a compromise) and she may be as fed up with the family expectations as you are.

Your uncle's comments are a great starting point- Tell her what he said and ask her what is really going on .

You lived with her for three years ....and you are both working women -surely an honest talk is possible !

The worst case scenario is actually her stepmother. In the past she has been actively involved in breaking up a marriage because she did not like who her niece had chosen. Even if I can shrug it off, she will stress out my parents and spread a story round about how Western and ungrateful I am and make other people's lives difficult until they persuade us to 'see the light'. There is another daughter in law of her brother who would not cook 'traditional food' for her children. They ended up receiving a visit from social services saying there had been an anonymous complaint that they were not allowing their children to have food. This was soon after that girl was starved to death so social services were taking that seriously at the time. it would be funny if it weren't having such a negative impact on people's lives. If you go against what she has decided she will find ways to make your life very unpleasant.

Grumpypoo

dktreesea wrote: »

So does that mean the daughter can't go back to her own house to live because the step mother doesn't want her there anymore?

Is your cousin older than you? I don't see how it is "your duty" to support and provide for her. She's neither your grandparent, your mum or dad, nor your younger sibling.

No - just that her 'home' is with us. She is about 5 years older. The 'duty' is because she is blood, not just age. The duty an English person would feel towards their own child in our culture is extended to the whole family.

Brighton_belle

Grumpypoo wrote: »

Out of interest, when you posted originally what did you expect from people? You have been given options as to how to address the situation but seem unable / unwilling to take any of them on board. I really do not know. Maybe I wanted everyone to just say 'put up with it and don't say anything'. The sensible answer for your relative would be to move to a job nearer home but if she likes living in London / has friends local to work etc. she is going to have to pay for the priveledge. Could she not rent a room near work or share with a friend? What did she do before you moved to where you are now?

Please see the answer in red

A very honest answer. Basically your thread represents the internal fight between your real self, the one who longs to live in an honest and open way about who you really are, in sinc with your inner self and needs and values, and the external self constructed by fear of rules and regulations and disapproval that your family and society have imposed on you. Many of us have this battle to varying degrees. (For example, good girls don't get angry, real men don't cry. Good girls have to be passive and do as they are told to be loved etc.)


Perhaps you wanted us to tell you to shut up and put up in the hope that would push away this increasingly overwhelming need to declare the real you because the fear of doing so is so frightening.


I suggest that living with such internal vs external conflict for a long time will not do your health any good. But only you can take the first tentative steps to change your life from how it is at present.


It's interesting you see initiating an open and non aggressive conversation with your relative as 'confrontation'. That isn't a criticism, but if you can change the language you use, that can help you see things differently. I would also start changing the phrase 'I owe my relative a life times debt'...how about to 'I would like to treat my relative with kind consideration because she was good to me when I was young and vulnerable.' Kind consideration could mean having a conversation with her and helping her find a better way to live.

dktreesea

Grumpypoo wrote: »

Please see the answer in red
I really do not know. Maybe I wanted everyone to just say 'put up with it and don't say anything'.

I've been in this situation. A younger brother in law, moving to where we lived to study. Four years later.... Four long years. And when I put my foot down at the end and said he now had a job so it was time to move out, - my then OH wasn't about to say anything, for all the reasons to do with duty and mutual obligations you are going through (his take on it was his elder brothers had supported him and now it was his turn to support his younger brother), - it caused a massive family rift. A rift that didn't heal even by the time we split up several years down the track. Hence my earlier advice not to ask her to leave.

I was in my 20s, young, dare I say stupid and wanting to be accommodating. Three decades on and I have never - and I do mean never - agreed to anyone coming for more than a couple of days.

Hindsight is a great thing, and I should have said no right from the start. My then OH could have paid for him to stay in student digs instead. Yes, a waste of money, but one that would have been worth it to me. But like I said, hindsight is a great thing. And in those days it wasn't like I had any internet buddies to give moral support (:) yaay for MSE!).

So on reflection, maybe it would be better now to let your cousin know that your uncle had given you the impression your place was her new home, and sorry but that isn't going to work out. You hadn't realised she needed a permanent arrangement.

dktreesea

Grumpypoo wrote: »

No - just that her 'home' is with us. She is about 5 years older. The 'duty' is because she is blood, not just age. The duty an English person would feel towards their own child in our culture is extended to the whole family.

Yes, I understand all this, but her home isn't with you. She has a home. She just doesn't want the cost and inconvenience of the daily commute, not to mention the hassle of having to go home and cook/be a skivvy for her parents - i.e. "do her duty" - even though it is late.

It seems to me she has moved into your home to avoid having to do her duty in her own home. If her dad is having to look after his disabled wife, then it sounds to me he is in need of a bit of support himself. If duty and obligation are so important in your family, and particularly on her side of it, how come she gets to leave her dad in the lurch and divest herself of her responsibilities by moving in with you?

If she is prepared to pay lip service to her own obligations and duties, fair enough, but even with blood relations there is still a hierarchy. As in my children before anyone else, my partner before the rest of my family, my mum and dad before my grandparents, my grandparents before my siblings, my siblings before my aunties and uncles, etc. Okay, the order may vary from culture to culture, but I am pretty sure cousins come way down the list compared to husbands and children.

Mutual obligation doesn't mean being a rescue service, as in rescuing people from their own duties and obligations. I'm sorry for your cousin, to be sure. She sounds overwhelmed. But she's free to reduce the support to her parents and spend some of it on seeing to her own needs.

She has a lot of options. She could sell the current house and relocate her and her parents close to where she works. I've seen Chinese families relocate whole families across oceans to achieve just this.

Herongull

I have to say that the stepmother sounds like a bully and bullies should be resisted.

She has become like that because people have allowed it. Perhaps Molly hates gatecrashing on your family home and would actually be relieved if you or your husband put their foot down? Then she could resist the stepmother's attempt to completely take over her own home.

Even if there is a family rift, won't it be worth it?