A wee quandary again re the people at the Church

jaylee3

esmerelda98 wrote: »

I wasn't actually referring to you but to your odd attitude that the church members are 'over-enthusiastic' because they want to read and discuss the Bible and contribute to building a community with Christ at the centre of it. I was trying to explain why they are the way they are. However it is also true that in many Christian circles it is expected that as time goes on a new Christian would just naturally spend more time getting to know God and worshipping God in the company of other Christians, a sort of virtuous circle.

Funnily enough, I have shied away from getting involved in Church activities, due to my own peculiar personal issues, but what pricked my conscience was a comment that pressed home the importance of everyone contributing to form a community. If everyone had the attitude of not getting involved there would be no community. It would be a very cold and lifeless church. Having said that, I recognise that the time may not be right for you to get involved. However I don't think it is an unreasonable expectation from your church members that you get involved at some point.

I'm sorry your post sounds rather contradictory. You have 'shied away from getting involved in church activities,' and yet seem to be somehow rather scathing towards the OP for not wanting to, saying 'well if we ALL had this attitude...'

You seem to be missing the point totally. The OP has made it clear why she doesn't want to get involved right now; because she has just got to be 100% commitment free, for the first time in her adult life (as she is 50, presumably this is 30-odd years.) So she's spent 30-odd years raising kids, working, and looking after ailing parents. I presume she was a worker, as she said she 'hasn't worked for the last six months.' So she has every right to have a life full of 'me time' for a good while.

And you say she will be expected to 'get involved' at some point. Why does she have to get involved any point? As I said, I went to church many years ago, and about 50 people used to go - about 30-35 fairly regularly (like 10-15 times a year,) and about 15 or so would be there every single week, and would be at every single church-related activity.

But there were plenty that did not get involved in the organisation of things; ever. And as there were plenty who did, it wasn't necessary for everyone to be involved. So why will she be expected to join in eventually? It's ludicrous to suggest that everyone who attends church should get heavily involved in arranging and attending all the activities.

And as for it sounding 'odd' saying that some are over-enthusiastic. There is nothing odd about saying that, and most people reading this thread, know exactly what the OP means. Everyone knows someone like this: someone who is obsessed and who lives and breathes Christianity, and seems to want everyone else to do so too, not realising that many people can quietly celebrate their faith, pray in private, and be a Christian in different ways, other than going to every last thing that has been put on by the local Church. These kind of things just aren't for everyone. Sadly, some people don't seem to understand this, and this is the reason why many people cannot be bothered with the Church, and why (I suspect) the few neighbours that the OP mentioned, stopped going to her local church.

I understand about the women's group too. The OP probably thought it was going to be a general chit-chat about life, with some religious talk, when it is clearly some kind of fellowship that is there to only discuss Jesus. As I said, the OP would be best to not go anymore, as it's clearly giving the wrong message, and making the group of women think she is more interested than she is in getting involved in the church activities.

And a few people keep saying 'tell them how you feel' or 'tell the vicar.' I'm sorry, but there is no way to do this without causing offence. Just continuing to go every few weeks, until they get the message that this is all she wants to do, is the only way to deal with this. As for finding a new church: IMO, they are pretty much all the same.

Torry_Quine

jaylee3 wrote: »

I'm sorry your post sounds rather contradictory. You have 'shied away from getting involved in church activities,' and yet seem to be somehow rather scathing towards the OP for not wanting to, saying 'well if we ALL had this attitude...'

You seem to be missing the point totally. The OP has made it clear why she doesn't want to get involved right now; because she has just got to be 100% commitment free, for the first time in her adult life (as she is 50, presumably this is 30-odd years.) So she's spent 30-odd years raising kids, working, and looking after ailing parents. I presume she was a worker, as she said she 'hasn't worked for the last six months.' So she has every right to have a life full of 'me time' for a good while.

And you say she will be expected to 'get involved' at some point. Why does she have to get involved any point? As I said, I went to church many years ago, and about 50 people used to go - about 30-35 fairly regularly (like 10-15 times a year,) and about 15 or so would be there every single week, and would be at every single church-related activity.

But there were plenty that did not get involved in the organisation of things; ever. And as there were plenty who did, it wasn't necessary for everyone to be involved. So why will she be expected to join in eventually? It's ludicrous to suggest that everyone who attends church should get heavily involved in arranging and attending all the activities.

And as for it sounding 'odd' saying that some are over-enthusiastic. There is nothing odd about saying that, and most people reading this thread, know exactly what the OP means. Everyone knows someone like this: someone who is obsessed and who lives and breathes Christianity, and seems to want everyone else to do so too, not realising that many people can quietly celebrate their faith, pray in private, and be a Christian in different ways, other than going to every last thing that has been put on by the local Church. These kind of things just aren't for everyone. Sadly, some people don't seem to understand this, and this is the reason why many people cannot be bothered with the Church, and why (I suspect) the few neighbours that the OP mentioned, stopped going to her local church.

I understand about the women's group too. The OP probably thought it was going to be a general chit-chat about life, with some religious talk, when it is clearly some kind of fellowship that is there to only discuss Jesus. As I said, the OP would be best to not go anymore, as it's clearly giving the wrong message, and making the group of women think she is more interested than she is in getting involved in the church activities.

And a few people keep saying 'tell them how you feel' or 'tell the vicar.' I'm sorry, but there is no way to do this without causing offence. Just continuing to go every few weeks, until they get the message that this is all she wants to do, is the only way to deal with this. As for finding a new church: IMO, they are pretty much all the same.

I agree that it's not realistic for everyone to be heavily involved but I do think it's not too much to ask for everyone to do something no matter how small to insure the smooth running of the church. Even washing the cups up after the coffee is important and needs to be done by someone. The church you went to was a small one and I don't know the size of the church in question but in a larger church it would soon have to stop doing all the important things if only a few people are helping out.

jaylee3

Torry_Quine wrote: »

I agree that it's not realistic for everyone to be heavily involved but I do think it's not too much to ask for everyone to do something no matter how small to insure the smooth running of the church. Even washing the cups up after the coffee is important and needs to be done by someone. The church you went to was a small one and I don't know the size of the church in question but in a larger church it would soon have to stop doing all the important things if only a few people are helping out.

We will have to agree to differ. I also know of churches that are much bigger - like in cities - and have 180-200 a week going to the Sunday service. About 35 to 40 people get regularly involved in the activities outside Sunday service. About three quarters do not.

Sorry, but I find it a preposterous suggestion that every person who attends should get involved in the running of it. Some only want to go for that 70 minutes of the Sunday service, every 3-5 weeks, or maybe fortnightly and that is it. And that is their prerogative.

And like I said, it does not make them less of a Christian, any more that it makes the ones who attend EVERYthing in the Church, more of a Christian.

No disrespect, but I think you and a couple of others on here, need to understand that not everyone is going to be the same as you, and that the OP is not in the wrong. In fact nobody is wrong; it's all subjective.

The difference is; you and a couple of others seem to be a tad judgemental and think what you're saying is gospel. I'm afraid it isn't. It's just your opinion. Nothing more.

Torry_Quine

jaylee3 wrote: »

We will have to agree to differ. I also know of churches that are much bigger - like in cities - and have 180-200 a week going to the Sunday service. About 35 to 40 people get regularly involved in the activities. About three quarters do not.

Sorry, but I find it a preposterous suggestion that every person who attends should get involved in the running of it. Some only want to go for that 70 minutes or of the Sunday service, every 3-5 weeks, or maybe fortnightly and that is it. And that is their prerogative.

And like I said , it does not make them less of a Christian, any more that it makes the ones who attend EVERYthing in the Church, more of a Christian.

We do on the whole agree actually and yes being a Christian is not dependent on how much you do. It does depend on how the church functions. Just thinking to yesterday there were people stewarding, the worship group, the prayer team, people making the refreshments and washing up afterwards and of course the person who opens up and puts on the heating, all of whom are not paid employees. Add in all the behind the scenes things and the children and student ministries and it becomes clear that it needs a lot of people to prevent anyone having to do to much. Even knowing who is ill and being a prayer is important to the life of the church.

I would say 200 is a medium sized church not a large one by the way.

No disrespect, but I think you and a couple of others on here, need to understand that not everyone is going to be the same as you, and that the OP is not in the wrong. In fact nobody is wrong; it's all subjective.

The difference is; you and a couple of others seem to be a tad judgemental and think what you're saying is gospel. I'm afraid it isn't. It's just your opinion. Nothing more.

ETA - to answer this extra point. I'm not being at all judgemental just trying to explain where I think her church may be coming from. As for being wrong or right I agree that it's not something that can be objectified.

jellyhead

Torry_Quine wrote: »

The groups you talk of sound like the Women's Guild or Women's Institute.

It was part of the Salvation Army but I don't know if it was a church-wide thing or just a local one. I was too young really, and only went a couple of times.

Brighton_belle

Billie-S wrote: »

I mean, do you know what kind of person I am like? And what I do for others in life and what kindness I have shown to people and God's creatures around me? No. You know nothing about me.

Showing kindness to others isn't an indicator of Christianity - Humanists do lots of it too.

jaylee3 wrote: »

And a few people keep saying 'tell them how you feel' or 'tell the vicar.' I'm sorry, but there is no way to do this without causing offence.

This is simply not true - it really is very possible to have non aggressive, adult to adult conversations about things that are causing you difficulty. Sure, there are exceptions but I personally know several church leaders who would respond with concern and kindness if such issues were brought to their attention. And someone posted earlier about a vicar who very clearly did positively address this issue by giving a sermon on it. You must have a very low opinion of all church leaders. And I'm speaking as a Humanist not a church apologist.

pollypenny

avogadro wrote: »

The problem seems to lie with the fact that OP is something of a free spirit, and the churches she has been to so far have been quite cliquey. I think it is about finding the balance between being part of a group or organisation, but not being tied to them to the extent that you are no longer happy there.

Surely if she is regularly being asked to join in a number of activities they are the opposite of 'cliquey'?

dandelionclock30

Sounds to me that it could be the work of the devil, try to get OP to prticipate in activities against her will. What next? it could be a community like that on The Wicker Man.

jellyhead

Judi wrote: »

The bible says about meeting together:


Hebrews 10: 24,25
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another...

Colossians 3: 16
Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts.

The bible says about meeting with unbelievers:

2 Corinthians 6: 14-15
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?


Me, well I have to be different, I believe this:


Matthew 5: 14-16
You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Unfortunately your brothers and sisters in Christ think they are doing you a favour by encouraging your attendance in all these meetings. I say, let your light shine.:rotfl:

It's a good job that Jesus didn't follow the bit in Corinthians :T