EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

RandomCurve

hammersfaniow wrote: »

I received letter saying 'end of the matter' from EE, so it's off to CICAS I go. Could someone guide on how to fill out the CICAS application online as it's all a bit confusing to me !

Thank you in advance

Already done - see post #266


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4888862

sarah_ace1

can we please have a sticky with all the template emails ?

RandomCurve

sarah_ace1 wrote: »

can we please have a sticky with all the template emails ?

How do you do a "sticky"?

Bimmermad

Anyone know of any good sim only deals???

Jay1980

Hey RandomCurve. I need some guidiance I have been sending off your templates from here (many thanks for that) this is how it has gone so far:

1st email from me:

I emailed you on three seperate occasions (14th February, 21st February and 27th February) regarding this matter. However I didn't get a response from you so I am trying once again! Please accept this email as my notice to terminate my contract with T-Mobileas per clauses 2.11.2 and 7.2.3.2 following EE's recent communication to me regarding a change to my Terms and Conditions.

I find the change unacceptable and consider it to be of Material Detriment. Additionally under Universal Service Directive 2002/22/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council 7th March 2002, Chapter IV – End User Agreements, Article 20 – Contracts, Paragraph 4 I have a right to withdraw from my contract (without penalty) upon notice of proposed modifications in the contractual conditions.

Please send my PAC code (penalty free) by return and refund any prepaid sums made on my account. If you continue to ingore my emails I shall pass my case to CISAS to deal with this matter.

1st response from EE:

Thank you for response with regard to the recent notification in the change of the Terms and Conditions of your agreement.

Please be advised the Universal Service Directive 2002/22/EC you refer to is implemented in the UK through the Telecommunications Act 2003 and via Ofcom's General Conditions. Under General Condition GC9.6 a customer has the right to cancel its contract without paying a cancellation charge but only where the change is likely to be to the customer's material detriment. The notice we have issued to our customers is not a notice whereby the change is of material detriment, as such there is no entitlement for customers to cancel their contract without charge.

This is the companies final position and it refers the right not to enter into any further discussion with regard to this matter.

2nd email from me:

Thank you for your email dated 04/03/2014,

Given that EE have changed its T&Cs which directly affects me as a customer I believe I have a legitimate expectation to be informed of the following so that I can take the appropriate action:


You have stated that “The notice we have issued to our customers is not a notice whereby the change is of material detriment” Therefore I believe I have a legitimate expectation to know what criteria you have used and which of my personal circumstances have been taken into consideration when you reach this conclusion, especially considering that under the UTCCRs EE cannot have exclusive right to determine what is of material Detriment me:


UTCCRs Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of:

(m) giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract.)


On your website the reason for the change is cited as “We’ve clarified our terms to offer customers more certainty and transparency in the event of us making any changes to your price plan charge.” Again I believe I have a legitimate expectation to be informed of what Ofcom guidance (document name/reference) prompted this change? And what the legal effect is on me by having terms “with more certainty and transparency”


As you have stated in response to my email dated 03/03/2014that “This is the companies final position and it refers the right not to enter into any further discussion with regard to this matter.”, Then If I have not had a response from you within a week of this email being sent, I will take the non-response as your refusal to engage in a legitimate debate over this change.


For your information I have already contacted CISAS who have confirmed that the statement “This is the companies final position” can be used in lieu of the issuing of a deadlock reference therefore if I have not heard from you within a week I will bring a case to you via CISAS.


2nd reponse from EE:

Please be advised the text message sent to you was not sent to notify you of a price increase but to advise you of a change in our network terms and conditions which will be made from 26 March 2014.
As a company we wish to provide clarity on the terms to ensure customers are provided with more certainty and transparency in the event of us making any changes to your price plan. The update in the terms and conditions supports the guidance Ofcom recently issued around fairness in contracts around several issues, including price increase in contract. The change in the terms provides greater clarity on price increase notification, which includes the instances when you as a customer have the right to cancel a contract without charge.
In addition to the above we have signed up to the government's Telecoms Consumer Action Plan which aims to improve the customer experience in a number of areas, including bill transparency and certainty over the lifetime of a contract, in line with the principles of Ofcom's guidance.
I trust the above explains more clearly to you why the text message was sent to you.

3rd email from me:

Thank you for your response to my email which was sent following EEs notification to a change in EEs Terms and Conditions.

I note with interest that you are at pains to point out that the text received “…was not sent to notify you of a price increase”. I am not sure how that has any relevance as my email to you made no mention of a price increase, can you please explain that reference?

For clarity I have requested that T-Mobilecancel my contract without penalty as per clauses 2.11.2 and 7.2.3.2 as I find the change in T&Cs that you have notified me of as unacceptable and consider it to be of Material Detriment.

Can you clarify which Ofcom guidelines EE have followed? And also explain to me what benefit EE receives from having the greater clarity in its price variation clause?

Further as I consider this change to be to my material detriment and as under theUTCCRs Schedule 2, paragraph 1, terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of:

(m) giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract.

Should EE still be unwilling to comply with our contract and process my request for a penalty free cancellation then please provide me with a deadlock reference so that this matter can go to CISAS

3rd response from EE:

I am sorry you remain unhappy with my response.

As a company EE does not accept there has been any material detriment due to the recent proposed change in its terms and conditions. Under these circumstances any request from its customers to be released from contract without penalty will be declined. Any customer wishing to cancel their contract may do so by providing the relevant 30 days notice period required but they will be held liable for any early termination fee.

The company, EE, have fully complied with the General Conditions set out under Ofcom regulations and as the previous emails and this one sets out fully the final position EE has taken, no further discussion will be entered into with regard to this matter.

Should you wish to seek external advice regarding this query, it is entirely at your own discretion.

I trust my response now brings this matter to a satisfactory conclusion.

How do I respond to this? The last 2 paragraph enough to take it to CISAS? Also the last response from them was nearly 3 weeks ago. I have been very busy lately. Have I left it too late? Please advice.

RandomCurve

Jay1980 wrote: »

Hey RandomCurve. I need some guidiance I have been sending off your templates from here (many thanks for that) this is how it has gone so far:


3rd response from EE:

......

The company, EE, have fully complied with the General Conditions set out under Ofcom regulations and as the previous emails and this one sets out fully the final position EE has taken, no further discussion will be entered into with regard to this matter.

Should you wish to seek external advice regarding this query, it is entirely at your own discretion.

I trust my response now brings this matter to a satisfactory conclusion.

How do I respond to this? The last 2 paragraph enough to take it to CISAS? Also the last response from them was nearly 3 weeks ago. I have been very busy lately. Have I left it too late? Please advice.

Don't respond to EE - take it to CISAS, according to Lynn at Ofcom CISAS have been reminded - and accept - that the phrasing above counts as deadlock.


If CISAS don't accept let us know

sarah_ace1

RandomCurve wrote: »

How do you do a "sticky"?

i think a moderator has to do it but i'm asking because the templates are here, there and everywhere.
collate all templates and their stages on one page as a clear concise guide.
i'm going to check all 3 orange contracts and get my emails sent today!

Sunnyhaze

Still waiting on a decision for mine. But I know I won't get the £100 compensation because I accidentally forgot to put it in. Slightly annoyed, but never mind.

oxfordmark

Hey

So could people email EE today to ask for a cancellation?

Or is it too late?
Also what email address should be used?

Thanks

tateman

This is great news! It's just occurred to me, should we have asked for the phone to be unlocked from whatever network?

I'm still waiting on EE's defence but I cant seem any reason why mine would be any different.