EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

sshariff

Nodding_Donkey wrote: »

CISAS complaint filled in online and all emails etc have been submitted by email.

If you submit evidence by email don't forget to include the reference number you are given when you submit the complaint

It also says on the CISAS website that they only accept .doc .jpg and .pdf files so don't forget, if you are using a new version of Word, to save them as a Word 97-2003 document. The new version saves them as .docx by default

.docx will also do. It just means that it needs to be a word, PDF, or JPEG format.

rachx21

RandomCurve wrote: »

One final warning I am not legally trained and my knowledge on this is purely based on my past experiences of dealing with Orange, T-Mobile, CISAS and the SCC. You do not need to take my advice, and you can change any of the below that you want or use something completely different.


Instructions:
Red X – put in the relevant dates
Blue text DELETE (it is there as a guide for you only) – unless it is a link to a website/document.
Red text delete the version that does not apply to your contract and change the remaining text to black.


Below to be copied and pasted into CISAS claim


Summary
My claim against Orange/T-Mobile/ Everything Everywhere (referred to as EE in the remainder of this claim) is that I should be allowed to exit my contract penalty free back dated to X which is when I first contacted EE due the change in T&Cs notified to me on X as per clause 7.2.3.2 (T-Mobile and EE)/ 15.1B and 4.3 (Orange) Contract:

7.2.3.2 You are a Consumer and the change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 2.11.3 or 7.1.4 above is of material detriment to You and You give Us notice to immediately cancel this Agreement before the change takes effect

15.1(b)We acknowledge that if we do increase the Charges, withdraw Orange Additional Services or introduce new mandatory Charges – or if your contractual rights are affected to your detriment – you may terminate your Contract in accordance with Condition 4.3. If you do not give notice within one month of our notifying you of any change(s), you will be taken to have accepted the change(s).

4.3 You may also terminate your Contract if we give you written notice to vary its terms, resulting in an increase in the Charges or changes that alter your rights under this Contract to your material detriment. In such cases you would need to give us at least 14 days written notice prior to your Billing Date (and within one month of us giving you written notice about the changes). However this option does not apply if:

That I be awarded £100 compensation (£25 for each) for the following:

• Breach of GC 9.6 – not informed of my rights to cancel the contract, (£25)
• Breach of UTCCRs Schedule 2, paragraph 1, – EE taking exclusive right to interpret what Material Detriment means, (£25)
• Brach of the duty of care owed by ignoring my legitimate requests for information. (£25)
• Breach of the requirement to act in Good faith in the way that the change in T&Cs was presented to me (£25)
  
  Details are at appendix 1
  Correspondence is at Appendix 2 to X (number 2 , 3 4 etc – it will be a copy of each email you have sent and received)

Thank you for this and all your advise, I am with EE shall I keep all the red points or do I need to delete any of them apart from the obvious ones? But the clauses I am confused as to which ones I keep, thanks

hellcats

baldyj wrote: »

Send the email in post #44, and await a response from EE.


While you're waiting read this thread from start to finish as it will help your understanding (it did mine), and inform you of what to do when you get your response!

Thanks for your post BaldyJ

djandymyers

Hi all

I have just sent the e-mail to EE as per post #44.

What I included in my e-mail was the fact that I, at no time, have agreed to these changes of T&Cs. I also told them that I found it absolutely remarkable that a company such as EE can only send me a 'text message' to tell me that my T&Cs are changing but with no right to discussion or challenge.

I quoted everything as per post #44 and explained that I have not and will not sign any changes to my T&Cs, further explaining that I am acting on my right as a consumer to cancel my contract with immediate effect based on this being detrimental to me and my finances.
What this change legally allows EE to do is rise our fixed monthly contracts whenever they like so long as they tell us before hand. I do not believe this to be right or fair and as such I refuse to accept these new T&Cs, to which I have not agreed to or signed anything in agreement to. As such I now await their reply to me.

I'm not entirely sure I'll get any response but if I don't within the next couple of days or so I'll call 150 and explain to them that I emailed them today and explain what I've said.

In my eyes, if EE change the T&Cs that I agreed to when signing my contract back in July 2013 without my agreement, leading to a price rise so long as they tell me they're going to, it's a breach of my contract and I for one will not approve to this change.

Let's see how I get on!!

Andy

50Twuncle

I had 5 emails sent to EO lost - ie they asked me to resend tbem 4 times - before I even got a grudging response !!
It appears that even though EE are a high tech communications company - unless you put a "FAO" in the subject - all emails fall down a bottomless well ....
I suggest "Angie Jones" - head of EO. ..

3times

I am getting this right.
I received the text, sent email 1, got reply, received letter yesterday that new terms apply to pre 30/10/2012 contract only - my current contract started in December 2012.

Therefore does not apply to me.

november

I'm a small business customer of Orange (my company, one phone) who has had a couple of conversations with Orange about this - the most recent being today.

My 2 year contract began September 2012 and I've (eventually) found the relevant terms and conditions online. http://files.ee.co.uk/business/terms-and-conditions/network/Orange-Pay-Monthly-Terms-for-Small-Business.pdf

Does anyone know if this is the same as the 4.3.1 mentioned in post #44 (the first email)?

terminating your Contract because Orange has changed its terms
4.3 You may also terminate your Contract if we give you written notice to vary its terms,resulting in an increase in the Charges or changes that alter your rights under this Contract to your material detriment. In such cases you would need to give us at least 14 days written notice prior to your Billing Date (and within one month of us giving you written notice about the changes). However this option does not apply if:
4.3.1 we give you written notice to increase the Charges (as a percentage) by an amount equal to or less than the percentage increase in the All Items Index of Retail Prices or any other statistical measure of inflation
published by any government body authorised to publish measures of inflation from time to time, and published on a date as close as reasonably possible before the date on which we send you written notice; or

My terms and conditions don't seem to have a 2.11.2. But I did find this below and am not sure if it's relevant.

15 changes to your Contract
we reserve the right to make changes to your Contract
15.1 We acknowledge that if we give you written notice to increase the Charges,or introduce new mandatory Charges, and such a change is to your material detriment you may terminate your Contract in accordance
with Condition 4.3. If you do not give notice within one month of our notifying you of any change(s), you will betaken to have accepted the change(s).

changes to your Contract
19.1 Subject to Condition 15, your Contract may be varied or amended only by the express mutual agreement of both parties. A party seeking to rely on such variation or amendment must produce evidence of the other
party's agreement to it.

Any advice much appreciated. I did receive the text and think I am running out of time to send the first email!

Although on the subject of time to take action I did also notice this:

miscellaneous
19.13 If either party delays or does not take action to enforce their rights under this Contract this does not prevent either party from taking action later.

50Twuncle

Has BBC Watchdog been informed of this latest EE event ?
Last year - it did no harm involving them......

sshariff

EE is putting up two separate links for terms and conditions change. One link has an applicability clause for pre Oct 2012 contracts as below (For Orange contracts):

http://help.ee.co.uk/system/selfservice.controller?ARTICLE_ID=3596936&CONFIGURATION=1016&PARTITION_ID=1&TIMEZONE_OFFSET=&segment=consumer&isSecure=false&CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE

The other link is an identical document but now shows as applicability between 30 October 2012 and 23 January 2014.

http://help.ee.co.uk/system/selfservice.controller?ARTICLE_ID=3596938&CONFIGURATION=1016&PARTITION_ID=1&TIMEZONE_OFFSET=&segment=consumer&isSecure=false&CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE

You can go to both the above links from http://help.ee.co.uk/system/selfservice.controller?CMD=CUST_CMD_MIXED_SEARCH_NEW&COMPUTE_ALL_HITS=true&RESULTS=CONTENT_TYPE&ARTICLE_START=1&ARTICLE_COUNT=10&TOPIC_START=1&TOPIC_COUNT=5&GUIDED_HELP_START=1&GUIDED_HELP_COUNT=5&FORUM_START=1&FORUM_COUNT=5&searchString=terms&CUSTOM_BRAND=Orange&OVERRIDE_CUSTOM_PARAMETERS=true&SEARCH_SELECTED_TOPIC_ID=-1&CONFIGURATION=1016&PARTITION_ID=1&TIMEZONE_OFFSET=&segment=consumer&isSecure=false

At the link above there are two sections for "Orange plan terms and conditions". The first is for pre Oct 2012 and the other is for the later dates.

So in a nutshell the terms and conditions change is for everyone (except new contracts). EE are bluffing people who object pointing them towards the applicability for pre Oct 2012 contracts in order to shut them up. Don't be surprised if come 26th March they tell you that the new clause applied to everyone and at that time it will be too late to object!

One fact remains - EE are deceiving crooks!

RandomCurve

sshariff wrote: »

One fact remains - EE are deceiving crooks!

Exactly right!


If you received the text then you have been notified of a change in your T&Cs. You can reject that change and cancel your contract penalty free even if EE subsequently don't change the T&Cs. This is because your contract allows you to terminate "IF WE NOTIFY YOU OF A CHANGE IN T&C".
Any other information is deliberate mis-information pumped out by the EE dirty tricks squad to limit the damage that this is going to cause them, and to make it more and more difficult for you to try and explain in a CISAS case. so stick to the facts and those are if you received the text then you have been notified of a change in T&Cs - simple!


if you received the text then use the template at post #44.

DONT DELAY
CANCEL TODAY