Universities and the myths

Blacksheep1979

Actually I've been trying to cut back - but was getting a little twitchy after this thread.

Blacksheep1979

If I hadn't seen him post in the other thread I would have thought Phil might of gone for help (or topped himself) but since he is no longer writing in this thread does this mean he admits he's wrong?

sockospice

studentphil wrote: »

I dont want to work in restaurant or clean rubbish. I want a decent job where I can have self respect. It gets wearing day after day seeing most other people get good jobs and good marks and all I have is to sit here and see the rain, wait for a job that won't come and to wait to be told I have failed my degree. It gets harder and harder to stay happy when life never gets better for more than a few hours before it feels bad again.

Self respect is all about what you make of a job, not the job's status. If you do a job to the best of your ability, no matter whether it's emptying bins or CEO of a global company, then you can respect yourself. Sounds to me like you're talking less about 'self' respect and worrying more about what others will think of you.

studentphil

Blacksheep1979 wrote: »

If I hadn't seen him post in the other thread I would have thought Phil might of gone for help (or topped himself) but since he is no longer writing in this thread does this mean he admits he's wrong?

I admit I have pre results nerves and that I often see the negative too much. It should look up in future and things will improve.

studentphil

sockospice wrote: »

Self respect is all about what you make of a job, not the job's status. If you do a job to the best of your ability, no matter whether it's emptying bins or CEO of a global company, then you can respect yourself. Sounds to me like you're talking less about 'self' respect and worrying more about what others will think of you.

I dont eally mind if people think I have wasted my degree if I have to get a non- graduate job but I do want one with some prospectus and some opportunity for the future.

Blacksheep1979

McDonalds will give you a prospectus for their jobs...

studentphil

Blacksheep1979 wrote: »

McDonalds will give you a prospectus for their jobs...

Do you dream of working at McDonalds for life?

Need_More_Money_2

studentphil wrote: »

Do you dream of working at McDonalds for life?

Why do you always assume you'll have to stay with the same employer for life?

Blacksheep1979

no I have a nice job lined up in a merchant bank thank you, but you were asking after jobs that had prospectus' or should that prospecti?

rubuhoeikanaika

*I've also posted this in discussion time *


Phil - I don't think you understand the difference between an 'absolute good' and a 'positional good'.

An absolute good is something which benefits you because you have it, whereas a positional good is something which only benefits you because others have less. Or, as wikipedia says, "Positional goods are products and services whose value is mostly, if not exclusively, a function of their ranking in desirability in comparison to substitutes."

Some examples of absolute goods:

1. medical care
2. good food
3. shelter from the elements

Some examples of positional goods

1. good looks (it doesn't matter that you look better than a slug, it matters that you look better than other people.)
2. a flash car (what good is your bmw for impressing girls if everyone else has an aston martin)?

Of course, these examples of positional goods are slightly muddy because almost every positional good has elements of absolute good too. For example, your flash car is a positional good for boasting and picking up girls, but an absolute good for getting to places in comfort with good air con and music.

Now the meat. A university degree (and education generally) is a mixture of absolute good and positional good. How is it an absolute good? You have absorbed knowledge and skills which help you develop as a person.

But for jobhunting purposes it is mostly a positional good. If there are 50 people fighting over 10 desirable jobs, and education is the sole determinant of employment, all that matters is that you are in the top 10.

For this reason, universities wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't give people 2.2's, 3rds, passes and fails - if everybody had a first, it would be meaningless and finer grained distinctions would have to be introduced.

I'm not saying 2.2's, 3rds, passes and fails have to be dished out every year in every subject, what matters is that it is possible to get them, and that they are regularly awarded. This shows "look, if I were lazy/stupid I would have got a pass degree, but I didn't so you know I'm not".

I think most people realise this instinctively - why else the whining about the '50% of people in uni' target? People argue, mistakenly in my opinion, that with half the population going through higher education, it will be impossible to find the best people in each year for the good jobs, and that a degree will lose its purchasing power: "of course in my day only 10% of the population had degrees and they all walked into good jobs."

If the universities helped everyone get a 2.1, then finer grained distinctions would be needed - only taking people with firsts, or asking for marks not degree class.

I think the American degree system is quite efficient in this regard:

• he graduated in the top 5% of his class at MIT, so he must be !!!!!! hot
• she graduated in the bottom 25% of her class at podunk state, she must be pretty bad
• he graduated top of his class at podunk state - hmm either a big fish in a small pond, or a smart guy. he should do a masters to tell which.

rubuhoe