E-on - You are a bunch of Liars and I'm reporting you to Ofgem

Cardew

Whilst I am not certain of my facts on this issue, it was my understanding that an average increase of x% was an increase in a company's revenue.


e.g. if Company A had an annual revenue from gas supply of, say, £100million and had announced an average increase of 9%, they would be raising £109 million in future. (obviously for the same amount of gas being supplied)


If, say, 15% of that £100million was raised from customers on fixed tariffs for the year ahead, those customers would not be contributing to the extra £9 million being raised. i.e. that £15million would be 'ring-fenced'.


Thus the £9 million extra revenue would be raised from other customers paying £85million.


Obviously the above is overly simplistic, but illustrates the principle.

scootw1

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays wrote: »

The suppliers say it all the time - "standard is our most popular tariff"

It took me 5 seconds on google to find this

http://www.edfenergy.com/products-services/for-your-home/documents/product-terms/standard-variable.pdf

In which edf state 66% of their customers are on standard tariff.

I have no evidence, but there is a belief that there is still a majority who have never switched supplier never mind gone to a better tariff

edit: just found this from which - http://www.which.co.uk/switch/energy-advice/guide-to-switching-supplier

66% of their members have never switched suppliers.

With this amount of inertia, are you surprised that it is considered best to announce prices rises on a standard-standard basis?

Fair enough. I dont think it would be a stretch though for the energy companies to supply a true average across all their tariffs is it? Or are they afraid of being seen as even more profiteering than they already are?

bluefield

birdman scoot et al. so those few of us who have had the ertia to get off standard are then screwed by vastly higher increases than the std crowd. as for "apples and pears" ???... I just want comparison on a level playing field of my cost of consumption of gas and elec with anyone and everyone elses gas and elec.

tks though to all contributors. things are getting a little clearer now.

here's a revolutionary idea: the regulator fixes the unit price of a kwh of gas and a kwh of elec and it is the same for everyone regardless of supplier location and tariff. the regulator also fixes the amount of percentage increases and thus everyone sees the same percentage rise in their fuel bill, with the monetary amount of the rise varying according to the usage of course. and for good measure outlaw all those dubious premiums for
paying by different methods and all incentives and discounts. then we might be able to see the wood for the trees. too much to hope for?

bluefield

forgot to mention standing charges. get rid of those as well, they confuse the issue and make a nonsense of the true unit prices which go up if no SC and go down if there is one.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

bluefield wrote: »

birdman scoot et al. so those few of us who have had the ertia to get off standard are then screwed by vastly higher increases than the std crowd. as for "apples and pears" ???... I just want comparison on a level playing field of my cost of consumption of gas and elec with anyone and everyone elses gas and

I'm struggling with your logic here. So because you have gotten off standard tariff onto a fixed rate deal, you should never again have to pay market rate?

Like you, in April the fixed deal that I've been on for 3 1/2 years expires. I will be looking at about a 30% increase, as I've beaten the last 3 winter rises. Simple mathematics tells me I'm not being "screwed" more than anybody else - to the contrary I've screwed the energy co for the last 3 years by paying below market prices.

(of course i'm aware they factor people like me into the overall profit margins, but it demonstrates the point)

scootw1

bluefield wrote: »

birdman scoot et al. so those few of us who have had the ertia to get off standard are then screwed by vastly higher increases than the std crowd. as for "apples and pears" ???... I just want comparison on a level playing field of my cost of consumption of gas and elec with anyone and everyone elses gas and elec.

tks though to all contributors. things are getting a little clearer now.

here's a revolutionary idea: the regulator fixes the unit price of a kwh of gas and a kwh of elec and it is the same for everyone regardless of supplier location and tariff. the regulator also fixes the amount of percentage increases and thus everyone sees the same percentage rise in their fuel bill, with the monetary amount of the rise varying according to the usage of course. and for good measure outlaw all those dubious premiums for
paying by different methods and all incentives and discounts. then we might be able to see the wood for the trees. too much to hope for?

Not sure why you are having a go at me. I would say people should get off the standard tariff. I do this every time. What I said was that they need to give the average based on all tariffs as that is a true average and not the one they want us to see.

if the regulator were to do what you say then the monetary increase would depend not just on the usage but the tariff as well.

The extra amount you pay if you dont pay by certain methods is because DDs are cheaper to maintain. No admin costs like with cheques. Less admin = cheaper costs - lower bills for the consumer.

Cardew

scootw1 wrote: »

What I said was that they need to give the average based on all tariffs as that is a true average and not the one they want us to see.

What is your interpretation of a true average?


Let us say that the Utility company has 1 million customers, that brings in a revenue of £1 Billion.


That Utility company might have a dozen tariffs.


Some will be dual fuel, some gas only, some electricity only.


Lots of their customers will be on fixed rate tariffs that will expire over a period from the next day, to 2 years hence.


When those fixed rate tariffs expire, some will move to another fixed tariff, some will go on the Standard tariff, others will leave the company.


They have 'social tariffs' that they are under political pressure not to increase by 10%


They pay various discounts for dual fuel, Direct Debit etc


The Company need(want!) to raise their total revenue by 10% i.e. another £100million.


Bear in mind that those on fixed rates will pay nothing until their tariff period expires.


Others whose cheap fixed tariff is coming to an end, will face a large increase even without the 10% increase.


So if they are not to describe their average increase as 10%, what would you define as 'a true average'?

scootw1

You have 3 tariffs, 1 goes up by 10%, one by 11 %, one by 9 % so the average is 10%. Or at least that is how they were worked out when I studied maths.The tariff itself goes up by that amount. There may well be discounts in addition but they are a customer's choice not a figure set automatically so you cannot use that in the calculations. Why are you making the calculation a lot more complicated than it needs to be?

Nada666

That is only the average if an equal number of customers take each tariff. An average would have to be weighted to accommodate the number of customers on each (and their consumptions). Cheaper tariffs are often limited subscription.

Bluefield is wanting a solution that is not any better than the current situation. At least with the current system you will receive some sort of median that applies for a reasonable number. A true average would only apply to very few and thus be even less helpful.

And there are self-contradictions in #54. First paragraph contradicts later paragraphs.

Cardew

scootw1 wrote: »

You have 3 tariffs, 1 goes up by 10%, one by 11 %, one by 9 % so the average is 10%. Or at least that is how they were worked out when I studied maths.?

So when you studied maths it appears you could solve equations with six unknowns? i.e. the number of people on each of those tariffs, and how much they were paying.


And we already stated that a large number are on a fixed tariff and pay no increase.