Jack saying goodbye to his bits

meritaten

aliasojo wrote: »

I don't have a degree in human psychology and I may be misunderstanding you but I strongly disagree with your last comment.

I've had lots of interaction over the years with psychologists (with eldest), in fact one became a good friend before he moved on and we lost touch.

Anyway, I was always told that you need to establish root cause in order to accurately treat the resulting behaviours. That seems to go directly against what you have just said.

it depends on the branch of psychology.
'behavioural' psychologists do just that - concentrate on the 'behaviour' and attempt to modify it. this is the norm these days.
you are dead right IMHO that establishing 'root' cause is needed - therefore the psychs you have known are NOT 'behavioural'!
its a bit confusing in that psychs can treat 'behaviours'! yet 'Behavioural Psychology' is a separate school of thought and methodology.

I probably assumed people knew this so wasn't plain in my post - sorry!

can I just explain this a bit more? sorry zaksmum if you feel I am derailing your thread.
to give a 'human' example.
my grandson was not getting on well at school. his teachers described him as 'disruptive, uncooperative, rude and aggressive'. he was referred to the Educational Psychologist - and went from bad to worse. after a couple of years I lost patience and asked DD to ask the psych some questions for me.
when the answers came back I realised that the Ed Psych was operating from a purely 'Behavioural' methodology. which involved reward and punishment. it wasn't working as my GS was only ever getting punished.
I told my DD how to explore another avenue and she got him an appointment with a Psychiatrist and eventually GS was diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome. there is no way in the world that 'behavioural psychology' methods would work with him!
he needed and got medication! he is now a completely different boy! still a bit quirky, but in the main he is doing well!

it doesn't relate well to animals as they cant talk or fill in questionnaires! but, if you know the 'root' cause of a behaviour then you have a very good chance of tackling it and eradicating it. if you don't, then you have to treat the 'behaviour' - which can be hit and miss. behaviour modification CAN work! its just that sometimes it comes down to a judgement call and what works for some wont work for others. it can be 'trial and error' on a treatment.

aliasojo

The Ed Psy's I know diagnose and refer if need be (to geneticists and psychiatrists and/or other professionals). They certainly don't only treat the behaviour by itself, they most definitely look at root cause so they can ascertain whether reward/punishment will actually have any effect. I know this from first hand experience.

I wonder if there is a regional difference as to what their remit is.

meritaten

aliasojo wrote: »

The Ed Psy's I know diagnose and refer if need be (to geneticists and psychiatrists and/or other professionals). They certainly don't only treat the behaviour by itself, they most definitely look at root cause so they can ascertain whether reward/punishment will actually have any effect. I know this from first hand experience.

I wonder if there is a regional difference as to what their remit is.

Probably Alias - this particular Ed Psych was apparently known to be extremist in her views and methods. and wouldn't refer on. (well known to the 'Aspergers community')
it took a lot of 'battling' on my DDs part to get her son referred on and diagnosed. This area is well known for using 'behaviourist' pyschs apparently.
we recently bypassed her completely with GSs sister - who is also Aspergers.

To me, it is shocking that this person seems so highly regarded in the LEA. but, on reflection - if she doesn't refer on, she insists her methods works and if it doesn't, then its because the parents/child aren't co-operating - she is saving the LEA loadsamoney! Parents once out of HER system don't complain - they are just glad they are getting the right treatment for the child. and of course for some children her methods will work!

meritaten

so sorry zaksmum - derailed your thread!

lips zipped now! wont say a word more!

CFC

zaksmum wrote: »

I've never had a dog neutered in all my years of dog ownership - except Lucy who came to me already spayed, and she has been my only female dog, my others were all males.

And had no intention of having Jack neutered either.

But I have weighed up all the options and after much heart searching I genuinely do feel that this is the best way forward now...far from ideal but the most logical next step.

I hope it's the right decision and it does the trick.

My tuppence - if this behaviour has come about because he's been attacked, which from the sound of it it has, not having testosterone any more is not going to make him less frightened, bolshy and inclined to get in first. Though hopefully it will stop him feeling like he can be ar*ed to jump a gate to bite a dog weeing on his territory.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's what I think

zaksmum

No worries meritaten. Glad your grandson is sorted now.

CFC, yes, I agree that not having testosterone will not make Jack less inclined to get in first, but he doesn't anyway. What I am hoping is that not being an entire male any more - and therefore not smelling like one to another entire male - will make it much less likely that a fight will start.

Because the other entire male won't be inclined to have a go at him and so he won't need to fight back.

I wouldn't get him neutered just to have him allowing other males to attack him and have him NOT fight back.

I want to calm it all down by him smelling non threatening to a dog which might have otherwise attacked him, because it all starts with the sniffing of the bits, doesn't it?

And yes, it would be nice if he could no longer be ars*ed to be territorial about another dog having the temerity to wee on his gate!

pawsies

Please research behavioural effects of neutering more before you go ahead.

I feel you are looking for a quick fix solution and this is permanent.

His problem is behavioural, not necessarily hormonal. He has learnt to react this way.

zaksmum

pawsies wrote: »

Please research behavioural effects of neutering more before you go ahead.

I feel you are looking for a quick fix solution and this is permanent.

His problem is behavioural, not necessarily hormonal. He has learnt to react this way.

Thank you pawsies but I have made my decision now.

Paradigm

zaksmum wrote: »

Thank you pawsies but I have made my decision now.

You had made your decision before you posted & wasted everyones time.... good luck anyway.

meritaten

Paradigm wrote: »

You had made your decision before you posted & wasted everyones time.... good luck anyway.

I don't think zaksmum has wasted anyones time. her decision was made but she wanted input. right up until she sees the vet she can change her mind!
tbh zaksmum I havent had males dogs myself so I really didn't feel I could 'advise'. I have had male cats though - and one was neutered quite late - had to be done. and it didn't change his personality towards us humans, but it did make him less of a threat to the local female cats and any dogs in the vicinity!
He was 'known' in the neighbourhood and was frankly a 'nuisance'!
The other was done before I got him and he was an outdoor cat who seemed to prefer being my 'indoor' cat! anyway. a more gentle cat I have never come across (unless its my current foster cat Barney). Whether this was a breed characteristic could be a factor - both long hair ginger and whites! one British long haired moggy - the other a pure bred red peke faced Persian - their personalities are very similar. gentle and people loving but definitely 'only' homeloving cats.