Fathers access to my 8 month old baby

rozmister

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

The planet where, if I have ended a relationship, I have the right not to have that person try and touch me in a sexual manner without my consent, in just the same way a random bloke in the street or at work or out in a pub or club does not have the right to grope or paw at me.

The OP never said he was touching her in a sexual manner without her consent she said he was 'flirty, trying it on & messing with my head'. She also clearly stated in her post that there had been no physical abuse. Turning flirting & trying it on into sexual assault based on no evidence belittles actual sexual assault.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

rozmister wrote: »

The OP never said he was touching her in a sexual manner without her consent she said he was 'flirty, trying it on & messing with my head'. She also clearly stated in her post that there had been no physical abuse. Turning flirting & trying it on into sexual assault based on no evidence belittles actual sexual assault.

'Trying it on' isn't the same as smiling. And if there's a situation where somebody feels uncomfortable with a person because they are expressing sexual interest that is unwanted, they have the right to not allow that person to repeatedly put them in that situation, whether it's at work, home or elsewhere.

rozmister

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

'Trying it on' isn't the same as smiling. And if there's a situation where somebody feels uncomfortable with a person because they are expressing sexual interest that is unwanted, they have the right to not allow that person to repeatedly put them in that situation, whether it's at work, home or elsewhere.

As someone who deals with people 'trying it on' every shift I do in an rough spit and sawdust pub I'm well aware what 'trying it on' involves but thank you for the information. I do have a life away from MSE where I experience the real world.

I completely agree, the OP has every right to arrange contact elsewhere because of his advances which is actually something I suggested way back in this thread.

However the misuse of the world sexual assault to describe an act that to your knowledge involves no sexual contact belittles people who are sexually assaulted. People who are touched without their consent would probably not compare that experience to someone saying "Go on, once more for old times sake, you know need me, you look so sexy today it's hard to resist" etc etc.

duchy

No-one should have to have someone in their home who makes them feel uncomfortable because they are making any kind of advance - verbally or physically...... Not sure why that is a difficult concept for some to understand.

duchy

rozmister wrote: »

However the misuse of the world sexual assault to describe an act that to your knowledge involves no sexual contact belittles people who are sexually assaulted. People who are touched without their consent would probably not compare that experience to someone saying "Go on, once more for old times sake, you know need me, you look so sexy today it's hard to resist" etc etc.

But both are unacceptable behaviour -I don't want to be propositioned in my own home by anyone regardless of whether I previously had a relationship with them or not......Comparing it to creeps in bars who think the barmaid is paid to be flattered by their invitations is an entirely different scenario.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

rozmister wrote: »

As someone who deals with people 'trying it on' every shift I do in an rough spit and sawdust pub I'm well aware what 'trying it on' involves but thank you for the information. I do have a life away from MSE where I experience the real world.

I completely agree, the OP has every right to arrange contact elsewhere because of his advances which is actually something I suggested way back in this thread.

However the misuse of the world sexual assault to describe an act that to your knowledge involves no sexual contact belittles people who are sexually assaulted. People who are touched without their consent would probably not compare that experience to someone saying "Go on, once more for old times sake, you know need me, you look so sexy today it's hard to resist" etc etc.

Depends. Perhaps you should ask the numbers of people who have then gone on to be raped by those ex partners?


Myself included.

rozmister

duchy wrote: »

But both are unacceptable behaviour -I don't want to be propositioned in my own home by anyone regardless of whether I previously had a relationship with them or not......Comparing it to creeps in bars who think the barmaid is paid to be flattered by their invitations is an entirely different scenario.

I've never said in the thread that one is acceptable and the other one isn't. Sexual contact without consent is more serious than coming onto someone and making them feel uncomfortable though.

As for my work people do not believe I'm paid to flatter their invitations. People believe they have a right to make sexually explicit comments and advances towards me constantly because I'm a woman in a man's place. And yes it's unpleasant, yes it's slightly frightening when I'm alone (I'm the only member of staff on my shifts) and no I don't think it's as intimidating as someone in my own home. I do however think that both scenarios are not on a par with someone sexual assaulting you.

rozmister

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Depends. Perhaps you should ask the numbers of people who have then gone on to be raped by those ex partners?


Myself included.

I'm very sorry that you were raped. I am well aware of the statistics surround domestic abuse.

You seem to be missing my point. My point is not that any of it is ok my point is that calling something a sexual assault when it's not makes the word mean less. In the same way calling a sexual assault a rape does not properly reflect or respect the experience of a rape victim.

I've been sexually assaulted and I've also been a victim of domestic abuse. I'm not comfortable with my experience of sexual assault being categorised as the same as verbal harassment. That verbal harassment COULD lead to rape but it hasn't yet and the OP has been giving lots of good advice on here about how to remove the situation from home and protect herself and her child. Both are unacceptable but in my opinion one is more unacceptable than the other.

Dimey

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyjamadays
Yes....I'm going to stand outside my house for 2 hours with a baby....

Amanda65 wrote: »

Back on page 3 I suggested someone comes to the house when your ex visits your DS so that you are not alone with him - why is this not an option?

I think OP was being facetious in her response. She didn't really mean she was going to stand outside for two hours.

Amanda - your suggestion of someone responsible coming to the house while Father is there , is a good one.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

rozmister wrote: »

I'm very sorry that you were raped. I am well aware of the statistics surround domestic abuse.

You seem to be missing my point. My point is not that any of it is ok my point is that calling something a sexual assault when it's not makes the word mean less. In the same way calling a sexual assault a rape does not properly reflect or respect the experience of a rape victim.

I've been sexually assaulted and I've also been a victim of domestic abuse. I'm not comfortable with my experience of sexual assault being categorised as the same as verbal harassment. That verbal harassment COULD lead to rape but it hasn't yet and the OP has been giving lots of good advice on here about how to remove the situation from home and protect herself and her child. Both are unacceptable but in my opinion one is more unacceptable than the other.

One can easily be a precursor to the other. If that is stopped, the final act can be averted sometimes.



The argument goes something like this;

'I'm worried. My ex comes round and he's always trying it on, messing with my head, saying how much we should get back together again. I'm really uncomfortable with him being in my flat and I wish he'd stop coming round'


How DARE you suggest that? He has a right to see his child. Send her off with a bottle if you're that bothered.


'I'm breastfeeding. And he gets right up close and keeps staring if I have to feed her'. And he's done things like try and kiss me, touch me or stand in the doorway so I have to get really close to him to get past.


TOUGH!


[few weeks later]


'Look, it's getting really awkward. I went out with him and the baby for a bit and when he came back, he started getting really creepy again and didn't want to leave. It feels like I can't turn my back for a moment in case he's crept up behind me again and is going to try and get me to have sex with him again'


TOUGH!


'He took the baby out and came back without her. Said he'd take me over to his mum's where she was. When I got in the car, he locked the doors and drove off for miles and then suggested if I didn't like it, I should get out and walk. When I said I didn't want to do that again, he said he'd just have to continue coming round the flat again'.


TOUGH!

[couple of weeks later]


'I....I....' [Sob]



But you let him into your home, you've not stopped him coming round, you've not refused his advances or reported them or done anything to protect yourself. So it can't be what you're saying it is, can it?




That's why it should be possible to stop things as soon as somebody feels harassed or put under pressure. Because, left unchecked, they can very easily escalate.