no pay rise for 5 years

tir21

AP007 wrote: »

Why such low expectations?

ive just always been an aim low sort of guy

AP007

tir21 wrote: »

ive just always been an aim low sort of guy

Well maybe they know that and rewarded you with 0%

hcb42

tir21 wrote: »

if we cant run a health service without stealing other countries health workers then something id very wrong

Most NHS staff i.e. doctors and nurses are usually at the top of the tree for migration reasons in all countries. Nothing unusual about the UK here. Plenty of British nurses migrate to Australia and New Zealand for example.

Southend1

AP007 wrote: »

collective is not one person is it, and like I say if 10 people get one and 1 person doesn't what can they do? The company would tell the union to get lost.

Not sure I understand the point you're trying to make, sorry.

If the employees don't accept an offer from the employer they have recourse to industrial action if necessary.

The employees may not be asking for everyone to have the same deal. E.g. They may choose to ask for nothing for employees earning over £45k, a 5% increase for anyone on less than £25k, a £500 increase for those earning £25k to £45k, and a rise of 5% or living wage minimum whichever is higher for anyone currently under living wage.

The example is a bit convoluted but just trying to show that collective bargaining doesn't have to involve the same deal for everyone. The best solution would be the fairest solution for all concerned. Whatever that is, is up to them to decide. Unions are some of the most democratic institutions in this country.

AP007

Southend1 wrote: »

Not sure I understand the point you're trying to make, sorry.

If the employees don't accept an offer from the employer they have recourse to industrial action if necessary.

The employees may not be asking for everyone to have the same deal. E.g. They may choose to ask for nothing for employees earning over £45k, a 5% increase for anyone on less than £25k, a £500 increase for those earning £25k to £45k, and a rise of 5% or living wage minimum whichever is higher for anyone currently under living wage.

The example is a bit convoluted but just trying to show that collective bargaining doesn't have to involve the same deal for everyone. The best solution would be the fairest solution for all concerned. Whatever that is, is up to them to decide. Unions are some of the most democratic institutions in this country.

Don't accept an offer? You are talking as if everyone gets pay rises in companies.

The point is that a union can not help an individual who has got no pay rise in a private company as the private company will take no notice of a union.

Industrial action? So if 4 of the people I worked with went 'great 4%' and I went 'oh I get nothing, thanks' you are saying the they should all not accept? That wont happen as the people with the rise will just thank their lucky stars and go 'oh dear' to me. Well actually they wouldn't have as it was part of our contact we were not allowed to discuss pay.

A group or employers don't get offer pay rises, individuals do or don't as the case mat be.

You can not make a company give a pay rise unless you are saying a union can on behalf of one person?

Southend1

AP007 wrote: »

Don't accept an offer? You are talking as if everyone gets pay rises in companies.

The point is that a union can not help an individual who has got no pay rise in a private company as the private company will take no notice of a union.

Industrial action? So if 4 of the people I worked with went 'great 4%' and I went 'oh I get nothing, thanks' you are saying the they should all not accept? That wont happen as the people with the rise will just thank their lucky stars and go 'oh dear' to me. Well actually they wouldn't have as it was part of our contact we were not allowed to discuss pay.

A group or employers don't get offer pay rises, individuals do or don't as the case mat be.

You can not make a company give a pay rise unless you are saying a union can on behalf of one person?

I think you misunderstand. If a union has enough members in a bargaining unit it is legally entitled to recognition. If a union is recognised by an employer for the purposes of collective bargaining then the union will negotiate with the employer on behalf of a group of employees (the bargaining unit). Collective bargaining replaces the individual negotiations but since employees have greater bargaining power when they negotiate as a group, employees who are union members (or work in a unionised business) on average earn more than those who are not.

tir21

AP007 wrote: »

Well maybe they know that and rewarded you with 0%

i suppose i should be grateful they didn't reward me with a -0.5% pay increase

out of interest have you had a pay rise in the last year?

tir21

what could they do if staged a one man strike?

Southend1

tir21 wrote: »

what could they do if staged a one man strike?

Sack you. There are proper processes to go through before taking industrial action.

AP007

Southend1 wrote: »

I think you misunderstand. If a union has enough members in a bargaining unit it is legally entitled to recognition. If a union is recognised by an employer for the purposes of collective bargaining then the union will negotiate with the employer on behalf of a group of employees (the bargaining unit). Collective bargaining replaces the individual negotiations but since employees have greater bargaining power when they negotiate as a group, employees who are union members (or work in a unionised business) on average earn more than those who are not.

You can not negotiate different pay rises surely for staff all doing the same job who get different salaries to begin with depending on how long with the company and abilities etc

I did understand the post saying the union can get a pay rise and they can not.