Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

SandLake

I previously posted here on 9th October, to recap, I was on a delayed Virgin flight from Orlando to Manchester on 29/12/12006, I did raise it with Virgin in early 2007 but was fobbed off and gave up, now with the ECJ 261/2004 ruling I thought I would now pursue it further. As Centipede100 said in my post #2644 Virgin are already dragging their feet, they recieved my new paperwork 17 days ago and still haven't acknowledged it, I contacted them today and they say to give them another couple of days - time is ticking down for me.

Bearing in mind that I run out of time to commence legal proceeding in 24 days, is there any course of action open to me? Would engaging a solicitor or claims handling company be of any benefit?

Thanks

2sides2everystory

Some regulars will know that this is my first post for many months - I was concerned that my posts were generally a bit too edgy for what is now a corporate website and so might this one be

Anyway I do like to tell it as I find it, and I surely found it was hell at Stansted today!

Centipede100's reminder that all the airlines are prone to try on a rebuttal based upon a counter claim of 'extraordinary circumstances' leads me to pose the question When exactly is 'adverse' weather an extraordinary circumstance? Personally I see weather as routine. I have weathered the vagaries of it all my life!

This morning I understood (from a BAA employee) that all scheduled Easyjet flights got away from Stansted. Ryanair cancelled 19 within about 30 minutes of a temporary runway closure at around 0700. It is true that a handful of their inbound aircraft were diverted out of position at the likes of East Midlands and Gatwick but a half hearted (and half aborted) attempt at bussing was eventually made after an early promise for a select few flights to the likes of Bremen, Dusseldorf and Billund whilst a larger number of flights were simply cancelled.

I noticed that the exclusive Ryanair aprons (that's broadly aviation jargon for the concrete around the Ryanair aircraft where we get on and off their planes and no-one else's) was NOT even remotely anti-iced. This meant that Ryanair baggage deliveries and collections to/from aircraft, refuelling, pedestrian passengers walking on slippery concrete, and mandatory pushback operations were all a slippery prospect almost exclusively part of the Ryanair passenger services operation this morning (aircraft at STN generally need to be pushed-back/pushed out away from buildings by a tug before they can depart, and Ryanair are infamous for forcing the minimum of passenger services out of BAA at the lowest price so Apron anti-icing is clearly neglected).

Ryanair's agent's Swissport were quick to say "Not Ryanair, Not Us, it's BAA Guv" when the crass failure to deal with the miniscule amounts of snow were mentioned. We know better don't we?

It is Ryanair's special way of abdicating risk, including weather risk which uniquely led to them cancelling flights at STN today when Easyjet didn't.

Even Ryanair were merrily flying their chosen and uninterrupted schedule from around 9am again.

I'd be very interested to hear a legal compensation-minded take on all this. There were at a guess around 3,000 cancelled Ryanair passengers and perhaps another four figure number of messed around supposedly bussed (but actually just peed off) passengers (some got half way to East Midlands and then their bus was turned round and they were brought back to Stansted - others sat on busses for indeterminable periods with no info about when the bus would leave and then were tipped back out into the airport to take their chances). It looked like extra police were drafted in and they did a marvelous job of helping passengers with extremely diverse assistance that you would not believe if I told you. They were the only clearly identifiable entity for long periods early on.

Swissport/Ryanair/BAA staff seemed to have removed identifying marks from their yellow jackets so it was not clear who they represented until they came out with a Not Us Guv gambit.

National Express staff took their usual yellow jackets off and donned orange "Coach Station Management Team" jackets. They seemed to be in telephone contact with some kind of freelance coach services company that called in busses from East Anglia in a kind of abortive attempt at re-enacting the Dunkirk evacuation.

Goodness knows what Dunkirk veterans would have thought if the little ships had turned round mid Channel and taken them back to Dunkirk.

Some of the older passengers were remarkably uncared for by those responsible for aviation passenger services (and I am talking about some reverted to personal wheelchair arrangements and some who overexerted themselves stressing about which bus they were to catch and why and even one who fell down an escalator to the bus station).

The impression I got from sundry STN aviation services spokespersons was that it could all be blamed on the weather.

That doesn't wash with me. Someone needs to continue to stick it to some of these juvenile corporate delinquents - methinks it is time certain of them grew up and cared, and it is also time that the only visible caring authority at times like this - the Police - were given the discretion to demand that corporates act upon their order to immediately start treating all passengers but especially vulnerable customers with expensive respect when the company has let simple weather get in the way of responsibly robust operations planning.

Over and Out!

luckyandblessed

Hi
I followed Martins advice and sent a letter requesting compensation for a flight that was delayed 10 2011. However this is the response I got:

Firstly, I would like to thank you for taking the time to write to us about your recent travel arrangements.

Having read the content of your letter, I can see that aspects of the holiday have given cause for concern. I am sorry that this is the case and would assure you that as a business, we utilise feedback to ensure that our products are improved and enhanced to reflect the needs of our customers.

We do advise all guests to view a brochure prior to their departure. This is because it contains valuable information for guests as well as containing the booking conditions, which form part of the contract between us. A letter should be sent to our Customer Relations Department within 28 days of their return from holiday. Failing to complain within 28 days of return may reduce or extinguish any rights the guest has to make a claim from us and ultimately may mean that we are unable to investigate your concerns with our resort based staff.

In light of the above and due to the time that has elapsed since your return and writing to us, I regret to advise that we are unable to investigate the comments. Nevertheless, the information that has been supplied will be shared with our colleagues overseas and our Quality Assurance department, so that we can work with our suppliers to identify any immediate solutions.

In closing I would like to thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to our attention and regret any impact this may have had upon your holiday enjoyment.


Looks like Thomas Cook are ignoring this new regulation and are referring me back to some of their terms and conditions. Bearing in mind Martin pointed out you could claim as far back as 2005 - has anyone any suggestions of what I should do nex?

Many thanks

MCSAVE

I initially had the same "28 day" fob off from Thomas Cook, and then challanged their pro forma response. I received the following response:

I am writing in response to your e-mail regarding your recent travel arrangements with Thomas Cook.

It is with regret that I note your flight with us was delayed. Whilst delays are an accepted part of air travel, I would like to assure you that a lot of work goes on behind the scenes to ensure that any disruption to our passengers is kept to an absolute minimum.

When a delay is initially identified, it is not always immediately apparent as to when a revised take off time can be secured. A number of factors have to be considered, which can vary dependent on the reason for the delay, and quite often we are reliant on outside influences, such as Airport Authorities or Air Traffic Control. Throughout, however, as soon as confirmed information is available, this is passed onto our customers as quickly as possible through our handling agents at the airport.

Although delays are rare, they can arise for a number of different reasons, and having carried out a full investigation the specific circumstances surrounding the delay to your own flight were of a technical nature, which were extraordinary, despite Thomas Cook taking all reasonable precautions necessary to prevent the situation. All aircraft can experience technical problems that are totally unforeseen, despite all reasonable attempts to ensure they are maintained to a good standard, in line with CAA regulations. These situations can be compared to the maintenance of your own car, which can break down at any time without prior warning, regardless of it's service history, and would be considered completely beyond the owners control.

I can see that customers were provided with welfare during the delay, in line with our obligations under EU Regulation 261/2004. As the events were defined as “extraordinary” no payment of compensation is considered appropriate in this case.

Please be assured that on-time performance is a key measure for us as a business, and we constantly review our operations to ensure we deliver the best results, and service. I would like to offer our apologies for any inconvenience you were caused on this occasion and I hope that despite this, your stay was found to be an enjoyable one.


My LBA has been sent to them, because they are clearly not looking properly at the details of any complaint and I'll see them in court. They haven't actually given me any details of the reason for the delay and "technical issues" are not an excuse. The pilot did tell us that the reason for the delay was a plane in the Greek Islands the day before that was affected by technical issues, so ours was as a result of the knock on effect. I love their last line that they hope my stay was found to be an enjoyable one..............I didn't stay with them, I just used their flights.

rusty_frog

luckyandblessed wrote: »

Hi
I followed Martins advice and sent a letter requesting compensation for a flight that was delayed 10 2011. However this is the response I got........................................

What were the details?
Where and how long were you delayed?
What reason was given?
Was it in writing?

What you were sent is a standard fob off letter that really means nothing.

No airlines terms and conditions carry more weight than the law.

stelane

I have too today received standard 28 day response from Thomas Cook, my letter must have only been days after this. Both flights in September were delayed over 3 hours, the return flight due to 'unavoidable operational circumstances' as per letter I received in the airport.

I have been looking through the previous comments to try and find the standard reply letter, however can not see it? do anyone have any links to a standard reply letter back to Thomas Cook?

Hope someone can help?

richardw

Perhaps try BA from LCY to PMI, 2sides.

Enterprise_1701C

Just curious - why are people on here saying they wrote to the CAA - can they actually do anything regarding delayed flights? I am expecting a rebuttal on the first stage of my claim with Thomas Cook for a 26 hours delayed flight to Cuba and wondering if that would be the way to go after they write telling me to get stuffed? One thing I recall very clearly from the first flight is the pilot saying that he had argued to carry on to Cuba but operations insisted on him returning to Gatwick (quick summary - we started off on time, turned round half way, then new flight the next day)

MCSAVE

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Just curious - why are people on here saying they wrote to the CAA - can they actually do anything regarding delayed flights? I am expecting a rebuttal on the first stage of my claim with Thomas Cook for a 26 hours delayed flight to Cuba and wondering if that would be the way to go after they write telling me to get stuffed? One thing I recall very clearly from the first flight is the pilot saying that he had argued to carry on to Cuba but operations insisted on him returning to Gatwick (quick summary - we started off on time, turned round half way, then new flight the next day)

Just send a LBA to Thomas Cook's head office, don't forget that the emails and website submissions are only being dealt with by "customer service" workers, they are not considering legal arguments etc.
I did write to the CAA though aswell as sending my LBA, maybe if enough people do, Thomas Cook will have pressure applied to stop answering queries with pro formas, but the CAA are toothless tigers! You are in it for the long haul (pardon the pun) TC are just playing a classic game of "Deny everything and agree nothing"

2sides2everystory

richardw wrote: »

Perhaps try BA from LCY to PMI, 2sides.

Ooh! I surely could weather some of that - so long as they don't serve Chicken Caesar wraps both ways - I had two last week somewhere over Germany where curry wurst might have caused less upset!