University Campus or Home?

Arthien

GoldenShadow wrote: »

The way I see it a student loan isn't a bad debt at all, probably the best debt I will ever have in my life in terms of affordability.

It's a question of 'good debt vs bad debt' really isn't it? And Martin himself has done his best to try and stop people from seeing student debt as a debt at all: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/loans/9558187/Martin-Lewis-Its-time-to-stop-calling-student-loans-debts.html :money:

securityguy

Dunroamin wrote: »

Lots of people who don't need the maintenance loan take it and put it aside for future purposes. This can be quite a sensible thing to do but not at the expense of

Under the post-2012 system? Remember, unlike the pre-2012 system, the interest accrues from when the money is taken out, not when the course finishes, so it's significantly more expensive as short term lending. The whole "take the loan, don't spend it, put it in an ISA" trick, popular amongst people whose parents could/would fund the whole course, no longer works: you'll be accruing RPI+3 on it while you study, which you will not be able to match in an ISA.

One of the unfortunate problems with education, as anyone will know who's ever hung out on forums that specialise in it, is that vast numbers of people trust "my cousin says" or "at the school gate they say" over the facts. I used to patiently explain the equal preference system on the common application form for secondary schools to people, and why the "you must put us first" thing that heads say is usually either wrong or misunderstood, but now I don't bother: "everyone knows" you need to put such-and-such as school first as it's "so popular", "it's obvious, isn't it?"

Similarly, student finance. People who didn't understand the previous system properly are merrily planning their strategy under the new system, which they understand even less. Taking loans under the new system that you don't need, in case you need them later, is not necessarily a bad idea, but it's a hell of a lot more complex to calculate than it was under the old system (you'll have accrued around 12% of the total sum in interest by the day you graduate, for example, assuming 3% inflation). Using that as a basis to choose your university seems, well, unwise.

But, as in everything, I'm sure the OP knows best.

victory

stebiz wrote: »

I read your thread too victory. I've no doubt it does take time to adjust but to be honest I'd be happier if she said that she'd found a nice guy to move in with - when she's ready, and not just because she's hit the magical age of 18 she HAS to leave.

I understand how you feel but even though it pains me to be an adult about it and say this your kids cannot be wholly protected from the outside world, it does them an injustice to not think for themselves, to make their own decisions, to be independent and fall on their faces if needs be, you will always be her dad but can't wrap her in cotton wool, pride is accomplished through achievement, standing by your decisions, earning a living, working, buying a house, growing up being independent all of it should not be squashed through fatherly love.

In the end they are their own people

Dunroamin

securityguy wrote: »

Under the post-2012 system? Remember, unlike the pre-2012 system, the interest accrues from when the money is taken out, not when the course finishes, so it's significantly more expensive as short term lending. The whole "take the loan, don't spend it, put it in an ISA" trick, popular amongst people whose parents could/would fund the whole course, no longer works: you'll be accruing RPI+3 on it while you study, which you will not be able to match in an ISA.

One of the unfortunate problems with education, as anyone will know who's ever hung out on forums that specialise in it, is that vast numbers of people trust "my cousin says" or "at the school gate they say" over the facts. I used to patiently explain the equal preference system on the common application form for secondary schools to people, and why the "you must put us first" thing that heads say is usually either wrong or misunderstood, but now I don't bother: "everyone knows" you need to put such-and-such as school first as it's "so popular", "it's obvious, isn't it?"

Similarly, student finance. People who didn't understand the previous system properly are merrily planning their strategy under the new system, which they understand even less. Taking loans under the new system that you don't need, in case you need them later, is not necessarily a bad idea, but it's a hell of a lot more complex to calculate than it was under the old system (you'll have accrued around 12% of the total sum in interest by the day you graduate, for example, assuming 3% inflation). Using that as a basis to choose your university seems, well, unwise.

But, as in everything, I'm sure the OP knows best.

Sorry, you're right - things changed quite a lot for students who started last year and I should have made that clear.

Dunroamin

securityguy wrote: »

Under the post-2012 system? Remember, unlike the pre-2012 system, the interest accrues from when the money is taken out, not when the course finishes, so it's significantly more expensive as short term lending. The whole "take the loan, don't spend it, put it in an ISA" trick, popular amongst people whose parents could/would fund the whole course, no longer works: you'll be accruing RPI+3 on it while you study, which you will not be able to match in an ISA.

One of the unfortunate problems with education, as anyone will know who's ever hung out on forums that specialise in it, is that vast numbers of people trust "my cousin says" or "at the school gate they say" over the facts. I used to patiently explain the equal preference system on the common application form for secondary schools to people, and why the "you must put us first" thing that heads say is usually either wrong or misunderstood, but now I don't bother: "everyone knows" you need to put such-and-such as school first as it's "so popular", "it's obvious, isn't it?"

Similarly, student finance. People who didn't understand the previous system properly are merrily planning their strategy under the new system, which they understand even less. Taking loans under the new system that you don't need, in case you need them later, is not necessarily a bad idea, but it's a hell of a lot more complex to calculate than it was under the old system (you'll have accrued around 12% of the total sum in interest by the day you graduate, for example, assuming 3% inflation). Using that as a basis to choose your university seems, well, unwise.

But, as in everything, I'm sure the OP knows best.

Are you old enough to remember UCCA and the game of "Uccamanship" with all the complications of not putting Durham/Bristol any lower than first or they'd ignore your application? I was an applicamt rather than an adviser then, but what a performance it used to be!

thorsoak

stebiz wrote: »

I'm sorry but your general attitude to debt is portrayed very well by your username and savings of 20p pieces. Either you didn't go to Uni or didn't do very well after going to Uni.

I've listened to peoples opinions and I would say it is weighted 70:30 in favour of going to digs. I've actually let her read the posts so she can see for herself.

That's very magnanimous of you!

I also would have liked her to study another subject as I'd have loved her to be a Lawyer but that is far from what she wants to be and you can only mention it to her so many times.

Like I said, she will make her own decision and by all accounts the most favourable at the moment is first year in student accommodation followed by coming home for the last two. Maybe she'll enjoy it that much she'll stay there for another two. I will however, as any responsible parent would do, advise her of what debt she will be leaving with and the alternatives.

From what you have posted, it would seem that you are trying to influence your daughter more than most parents would think reasonable.

Your daughter should, by now, know her strengths and weaknesses in the different subjects and she should be deciding upon the subjects she wishes to read at uni based upon these. Similarly, her choice of career is hers and hers alone - it's okay to say "have you thought about X or Y" but that should be as far as a parent does influence, imo.

At just 18, coming from what by your own posts would appear to be a very sheltered close family, she still has to develop a greater sense of independance and it may well be better for her to stay home for another year - so long as you do not stultify her growth into independance.

securityguy

Dunroamin wrote: »

Are you old enough to remember UCCA and the game of "Uccamanship" with all the complications of not putting Durham/Bristol any lower than first or they'd ignore your application? I was an applicamt rather than an adviser then, but what a performance it used to be!

Yes.

How true it actually was, no-one knew, of course.

tooldle

In my day, the objective was to get into the best Uni for your particular subject. My choice was over 200 miles from my parents house. I lived in hall, and I loved it!
The whole University experience is far more than just education. Reading for the degree is of course important, but much is also gained by being independent.
I work in a University, and come across many adult students, who still rely on their parent to "speak" for them, to fight their battles and generally organise their life. We all have to learn these lessons at some stage. Isn't it smoother to learn with a bunch of others, all at the same life stage?
OP you seem very worried about debt. Have you considered that taking a place at the best possible Uni, and moving out of home may be beneficial to your daughters career prospects? You also mention the need for a doctorate. I have a PhD myself, and work with current PhD students. It is normal for research studies to be financed by a sponsor. In my field, students who self suport at this level do so, beacuse they are not strong students. At this stage I would not let this in anyway influence your daughters choices.
In addition, very few students go on to achieve a PhD. In my experience, you cannot tell at the A'level stage, which students have the capacity to get to doctorate level. Doctorates require not only intelligence, but many life skills i.e. the ability to manage time (i.e. get up every morning, and get a ful 8 hours work in the lab), the ability to keep trying when everything is going wrong, the ability to work with those around you, often as a team effort. I could go on and on, but my point is the ability to function as an independent person is a key skill. There is only one way in which any of learn to be independent; and that is by trying.
You mention that the choice of Uni is made. Does you daughter hold a place, or has she not yet applied?

stebiz

tooldle wrote: »

You mention that the choice of Uni is made. Does you daughter hold a place, or has she not yet applied?

I was going to let this lie but things have developed a little.

My daughter has come back from work experience in a placement with a Psychology unit and was shocked by what she came across. I won't go into detail but it involved human excrement being spread on all the walls of the room she was based in. She isn't even sure if she wants to follow that career path now, although she may well do and just shows how quickly they can change their minds.

This is exactly what I mean about her not being ready. The last thing I want is for her to start a course and then have to leave it half way through. Like most will know there is no finance for a second degree so she needs to get on the right course first time round.

She hasn't been offered a place as it is next year but we have spoke to the University and they say that all students with ABB will be offered a place and she is on target to achieve this.

Person_one

Actually, there is provision for a 'false start'.

You can't advise her if you don't really know your stuff!