Bay 3 months chucked into FULL time nursery

lostinrates

Person_one wrote: »

Women without children, on average, earn 95% of what a man earns.

Women with children, on average, earn 72% of what a man earns.

Mens' average salaries are unaffected by whether or not they are parents.

Coincidentally a friend of ours and I were talking about this on Friday night. (We're getting old, are you going to have babies type conversation) Her office offers flexible work patterns, so she opted to take that and works fewer days a week. She is not the only woman at her office to do this. not one of the childless men do it. She thinks its something to do with the women just having an appreciation of the work life balance better.

I don't know, and don't have an opinion, as until Friday I'd never really considered it. Dh's employers recently introduced 60 and 80% work contracts, It will be interesting in a few years to see what the take up of them is and impact on career progression.

DevilsAdvocate1

Gigglepig wrote: »

Person one, I whole heartedly agree with you. isn't it ironic that a man who himself did not go on months of paternity leave posted this thread, criticising people and using phrases such as 'not fully appreciating their kids', 'missing all those special moments', and 'not seeing them on a regular basis'.

Claire : For many professionals, several years out of work will mean that your knowledge and possibly your network is out of date. It also seems that women's career progression often slows down after having children.

I do think that this is in many cases because the woman chooses to reduce her hours to concentrate more on her homelife. I earnt the same as my husband prior to having the children, but I wanted to stay at home and he didn't. I don't think I'm unique.

claire16c

Gigglepig wrote: »

Person one, I whole heartedly agree with you. isn't it ironic that a man who himself did not go on months of paternity leave posted this thread, criticising people and using phrases such as 'not fully appreciating their kids', 'missing all those special moments', and 'not seeing them on a regular basis'.

Claire : For many professionals, several years out of work will mean that your knowledge and possibly your network is out of date. It also seems that women's career progression often slows down after having children.

So you refresh/relearn whatever, it doesn't mean you're going to end up on minimum wage I personally would put my children before that as they would become my most important thing. You have years to work and sort that out. Children are only small for a very tiny period of time. This could be shared 50/50 between the two parents, say you each took 1 year off for example to minimise the time off. This doesn't have to apply to only 1 parent.

Bluemeanie_2

claire16c wrote: »

I find it interesting you think that because I've known lots of women to have taken a break of 2-3 years to look after a child and then gone back into whatever they were doing before.

I've known other people to take a year off travelling - including myself and gone straight back into well paid jobs.

I don't think just because you take some time out you're someone how suddenly going to end up on minimum wage.

I don't see why it needs to be one extreme or the other.

I know what you're saying, but it's the field I work in, combined with the level I'm at. I started a new job last year and it took me 2.5 years to find that role. Albeit I was being a bit picky.

Bluemeanie_2

Person_one wrote: »

Lets face it, this is just a huge sexist double standard. Its massively annoying and I don't even have children! I do think I'd want them much more if I were a man and wouldn't face the discrimination, scrutiny and pressures women come under when they have babies.

When a man becomes a parent, he might (not all can or do) take two weeks off weeks off work to bond with the newborn and share the parenting. After that he goes back full time, sees the child evenings and weekends, is thought to be a wonderful dad if he shares night feeds, nappy changes and so on at all, never gets questioned about how he juggles work and family, is never expected to be the one who deals with sick kids coming out of school etc. Is never sneeringly called a 'career man', or accused of trying to 'have it all', he never has his priorities questioned or asked why he bothered having children if he was planning to work full time while they were growing up.

A woman becomes a parent, and suddenly everything she does becomes everybody else's business for some reason. Why are you going to work? Why are you not working? Why are you working too many hour? Why are you only working enough hours to claim tax credits? Why are you breastfeeding? Why are you bottle feeding? Why are you weaning now? Why are using a nursery? Why are you using a childminder? Why are you getting free childcare from grandma? Why are you still sending them to nursery on your day off? Why are you feeding your child that? Why are you letting them play with that? Why are you only having one? Why are you having so many? Apparently even buying pyjamas is loaded with meaning if you're a mother!

We need more same sex couples to start raising happy healthy children so that people realise these gender divides are pointless and unhelpful.

Excellent post Person_one. When people see I'm expecting, not one person asks my Husband if he is going to go part time or give up work etc!

Person_one

claire16c wrote: »

So you refresh/relearn whatever, it doesn't mean you're going to end up on minimum wage I personally would put my children before that as they would become my most important thing. You have years to work and sort that out. Children are only small for a very tiny period of time. This could be shared 50/50 between the two parents, say you each took 1 year off for example to minimise the time off. This doesn't have to apply to only 1 parent.

You personally, exactly.

What's wrong with everybody doing what they feel is right for their family and themselves, as long as they aren't harming their children why does it matter so much if other people make different choices?

There's a lot of very emotive language being thrown around too that doesn't seem particularly helpful. Putting my child first, child most important, care more about my child blah blah blah. Working full time, part time, or not at all has absolutely nothing to do with how much you love your child. If it does a lot of dads must be very blase about their kids...

j.e.j.

Bluemeanie wrote: »

Excellent post Person_one. When people see I'm expecting, not one person asks my Husband if he is going to go part time or give up work etc!

well, obviously! Your husband is not the one having the baby!

The thing is, even in this day and age, women's earning capacity is less than men's. And the higher-earning jobs don't tend to allow for part-time hours. So it often makes more financial sense for the woman to stay home and raise the child while the man goes out to work.

Person_one

j.e.j. wrote: »

well, obviously! Your husband is not the one having the baby!

Oh, is he not going to be a parent too? How odd!

FBaby

Interesting comment. How many babies choose things out of free will? Im not sure i have met many that make their own decisions

Well that could go both ways, couldn't it, how many babies would scream 'take me to nursery' if they could when they are neglected at home... The point I was making was that you should listen to your child. A baby that is unsettled for weeks is telling you that something isn't right. A toddler who is shy, clingy, cries every morning being dropped off and runs to you when you pick him up is a child who isn't adjusting well to the childcare arrangement choice of the parent.

Also, you ask their children whether they are traumatised? How do they know what the answer is to that question?

Of course I haven't asked my children if they have been traumatised by the experience of childcare. I have asked them, now that they are 10 and 13, whether they'd wish they hadn't gone. Both said right away that they had loved it. My son did say that he wished at time that I was home during the holiday but then added that he knew my working meant that we could afford the holidays we go on and he wouldn't want to trade that.

They say childcare, and they tell you they would rather be with someone else other than their own parent?

As per my response above. Am I offended, of course not, because I am not a parent to believe that everything I do is forcibly better than what others might offer. Both my children were babies requiring a lot of stimulation and attention. They received that at nursery probably much better than what i could have given them 24 hours.

The whole social thing with childcare is nothing i didnt do as a child with my parents either at home or with parents at child social groups/parent coffee mornings. I just cannot find a convincing argument that doesnt scream to me that the parents would rather have their money and careers than spend those first 5 years raising their childen before they start school. The only years you really get to spend with them fully

And that's your belief from your own experience, which was exactly my point. You can either stick to you know better for any child in this world, or you look at children, see that most grow to be well adjusted, happy children and that some of these will have had your experience of growing up and some will have gone through childcare. At least one thing that I managed to teach my children is the quality time we shared was tolerance and appreciation of differences in opinion...

Bangton

I've read this thread with great interest as to what the majority of posters would think about childcare. In part, because I've been berated over and over again for choosing that option when my baby arrives (albeit, slightly different as I am able to take a full year off work prior to ' chucking him' into nursery.

My mum's reaction? ' I'd rather be skint than put my child into childcare. Are you going to send it to boarding school as well?'

I've been asked why I'm having a baby. Surely I can cut back and stay at home blah blah blah...

It really gets my goat and to some degree has spoilt some of the enjoyment of pregnancy. I never even realised the criticism women in particular get about their parenting skills until I shared the fact I was going to be working full time. Yet, not one person has asked whether my partner will be working full time ... it's taken that as his mother it's all down to me.

For me, no one knows my financial situation and they just don't trust me when I say that I am working full time because I have to. Apparently that means I 'have to' spend a bomb on clothes, handbags, shoes and makeup as well as have a baby which couldn't be further from the truth. I couldn't care less about that rubbish BUT I do care whether my son get's to go places and have new experiences. Heck, I do care if my partner and I do too because I cannot just be a mum having to make ends meet on just one wage because people think I'm terrible for sending my boy to nursery.

For what it's worth, he isn't here for another 3 months and already I feel sick at the thought that I might have to leave my child screaming for me when I leave him for that first full day. Let me tell you people don't make the decision lightly...and it wasn't just MY decision since I have a partner and an employer to consider as well