Bay 3 months chucked into FULL time nursery

Gigglepig

j.e.j. wrote: »

It would be if I had said that but i haven't. I don't know why you are getting so aggressively defensive, tbh. I presume the thread touches a raw nerve with a lot of the people on here.

I simply said children don't get the choice, mothers do. That is the case.

If everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as you rightly say, why do you object so strongly to someone whose opinion might differ to yours?

I said you insinuated it. That is how I read the many posts you made on this thread.

I don't have kids so no, I am not being defensive about my own choices. I'm simply sick of people judging women for making different choices than they would have, and about completely different standards of expectations for men and women. Looking at this thread, I am clearly not the only one. everyone is entitled to making their own solution for their family, but judgmental or sexist attitudes are unnecessary.

j.e.j.

Gigglepig wrote: »

everyone is entitled to making their own solution for their family, but judgmental or sexist attitudes are unnecessary.

We live in a judgemental and sexist society, unfortunately. Not much you can do to change that.

You are wrong if you think I am criticizing people for making their own choices. But I do think there needs to be a balance between "It's MY RIGHT to do such and such" and the child's welfare. Where children are concerned it's always better to talk of responsibilities than rights.

trevorsminted

My this has become a most popular subject and been in the top 5 for most of the weekend I see :j

Well thank you all for your input, good bad and indifferent, I can wholeheartedly agree I may be illiterate, chauvinistic, rude, opinionated etc and I have taken each and everyone's comments on board and my equal life partner will take a back seat and merely agree when the conversation arises again, as many have commented it is an individual's family unit to decide what is best for the children they are equally responsible for, I have most likely failed our kids in some way by working I agree!

Thank you again feel free to carry on and debate amongst yourselves for whatever reason I am off to tripp trap back under the bridge!

FBaby

Also, the underlying sentiment on a lot of these defensive posts from the women on here is that staying home to raise your child is some inferior activity, only for the stupid and intellectually incapable. 'Real' women go out to work and (ahem!) "chuck their baby in a nursery". I find it a shame that feminism and so-called womens rights means people are now adopting this attitude.

I haven't read anything here insinuating that SAHM are inferior to working mums. Where is this written?

Remember, the child doesn't ask to be here. You make the choice to have a baby. If having a baby is an inconvenience, simple, don't have a family! No-one forces you to.

You are making the assumption that women who choose to work do so because they see their child as an inconvenience. All the working mums I know adore their children and would do anything for them. They work because they truly believe that it is either doing no harm to their child or even is beneficial. I also know SAHM who do resent their child for what they consider to be their boring life at home. You just cannot link the reasons why mothers choose to work of to SAHM with whether they do so because they consider their child an inconvenience.

If everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as you rightly say, why do you object so strongly to someone whose opinion might differ to yours?

That's because your posts spurt of judgment rather than opinion. You have an opinion and you are convince that because you are right, those who disagree are harming their children. I am working, believe it is the right choice for my family, as a matter, am convinced I made the right choice, but that doesn't mean I believe that SAHM are bad parents in any shape or form or that they have made the wrong decision for their family.

Gigglepig

j.e.j. wrote: »

We live in a judgemental and sexist society, unfortunately. Not much you can do to change that.

If you look at how much things have changed in the UK over the last 100 years, what makes you think there is nothing one can do to change things over the next 100 years? Don't you think this is is exactly what people have been saying to all the fabulous men and women who have made society a little bit less sexist, step by step?

j.e.j.

FBaby wrote: »

That's because your posts spurt of judgment rather than opinion. You have an opinion and you are convince that because you are right, those who disagree are harming their children.

No, I have never said anything of the sort. I wonder if those who are interpreting my posts like that are perhaps on the defensive already, possibly because they feel uncomfortable about the subject.

Gigglepig wrote: »

If you look at how much things have changed in the UK over the last 100 years, what makes you think there is nothing one can do to change things over the next 100 years? Don't you think this is is exactly what people have been saying to all the fabulous men and women who have made things a little bit better, step by step?

Things have changed for the better and for the worse over the last 100 years. They will continue to do so over the next century, - who knows what the family unit will be like in 2100? Perhaps the experts then will be looking back at us, at our fast-paced, wifi-dependent, dysfunctional lifestyles and the prevalence of the inevitable mental illness that follows,and shake their heads.

FBaby

No, I have never said anything of the sort. I wonder if those who are interpreting my posts like that are perhaps on the defensive already, possibly because they feel uncomfortable about the subject.

Maybe some do, but I can assure you that it is not the case for me. I have highly confident that I made the right choice for my family and my children and given the chance, I wouldn't do things any differently.

I have no reasons to be defensive since I don't have an opinion one way or the other and think that both choices are fine. However, it is interesting that it is not just one poster who consider your posts as judgmental. Maybe it is because...they are? No-one but you mentioned children being considered an inconvenience.

thorsoak

If we look back at childcare 100 years ago, we would find that the upper classes and middle classes would delegate childcare to others - nannies and the like, working classes would have children taking care of children - my mother, aged 6 looked after her younger siblings from 6am until after 7pm whilst her mother worked in the local munitions factory. She got them up, gave them breakfast, washed and dressed them and looked after them after school - including cooking a meal for them all!

My grandmother was an orphan and my grandfather was missing in France during WW1.

j.e.j.

FBaby wrote: »

I have no reasons to be defensive since I don't have an opinion one way or the other and think that both choices are fine. However, it is interesting that it is not just one poster who consider your posts as judgmental. Maybe it is because...they are? No-one but you mentioned children being considered an inconvenience.

It's funny how people don't see the irony in judging someone else to be judgemental :rotfl:

The OP has obviously hit a raw nerve amongst the mums (and the non-mums) on here. It's been quite an interesting discussion. The inevitable accusations of sexism when the obvious is pointed out, and the emotive posts from women who 'know' they are doing the right thing for their family.

Nobody knows you, this is an internet forum, and nobody else can say what's right and what's wrong for your family.

Gigglepig

J.e.j. Already in your very first post, where you agreed with the OP you said

j.e.j. wrote: »

I agree with you. If you don't want to look after it, why have a baby?

To me, This comes across as judgmental.

FBaby doesn't come across as judgmental the way you do, as FBaby's posts are open to different solutions. There are no posts from anyone on here saying "if you don't want to offer baby and society more than being a SAHM, why have a baby?".