Say No to 0870!

Victors_Bruvver

Thanks Martin and also to theloft & drrdf3, lets hope that we are now back on track and get to the issue to hand, namely being ripped off by companies who are using these NGNs to give the impression to their customers that they are calling a fair priced national call charge numbers when they are not.

Obviously these companies who use NGNs are still going to carry on making all this extra revenue whilst the regulator sticks his head in the sand. Consequently the public are continuing to get more confused with what they are paying for a so called “service”. As an example of how these regulators work, just look at how long it took the authorities to pass legislation to get credit card companies to make the interest rates more transparent!

As you say, In the USA they would just not get away with it, as they are not as gullible to either “Flim Flam” or “Kidology”, I think that is the way the latter is spelt. Look at British Airways who, I think, still use 0870 numbers here in the UK, and then make their customers pay a further charge for the flights being booked on the telephone and guess what?, in the USA they use TOLLFREE numbers – is that fair to us in the UK where BA are our national airline?

With regard to an earlier posting, has anyone given any thought to the idea of asking Ofcom to look at the idea of legislating for these numbers i.e. the 0800, 0500, 0870, 0700 & 0900 into a little logo, like the French do, and ensure that whenever a number is published it is always in this logo to bring the readers attention to the slightly different, but increased tariff? At least this may be a start and show up any covert revenue making ideas this companies may have in store for us.

Loopytush

Firstly I will apologise if I offended any one in any way it was not dilberate.

Secondly the only reason i thought it worth using such things as tabacco etc, was to take peoples thoughts away from the red mist they are seeing when 0870 is mentioned, and to use the situation in another sebario.

Hands held up, i let the constant "ignorance or lack of knowledge" (no offence here) get to me.

Yes i do have an interest in these numbers! However this does not mean that i am also in favour of them, as they stand.

I just cannot beleive that some people cannot see noth sides of the coin (so to speak).

Victors_Bruvver is the only person (that I recall) that has made a positive or realistic comment to the whole issue. And that is to flag them in advertising (with logo or similar).

drrdf3 you are correct in the call queuing situation.

Wanting to bring a more placid discussion around, please do not hesiate to ask me anything regarding NGN, PRS or PNS services and I will be glad to assist, just please dont shoot the messenger.

And again if anyone wants to know how to use any of these numbers to their advantage (whilst companies are doing the same) please do not hesitate to ask.

System

Good to see an apology, but there is still a 'sting in the tail'! We all still 'constantly showed ignorance and lack of knowledge' in our views, according to loopytush! What knowledge is this? That 0870 is covert premium?
It cannot be ignorant to express the (correct?), widely held opinion that 0870 is an abomination, particularly when it specifically uses covert means to extract more money from you.
The latest info about the fact that premium numbers DON'T ALLOW queueing , but 0870 actually ENCOURAGES this shows exactly why 0870 are awful! So why not make 0870 'premium' - you are having to pay more for them than 'ordinary' calls - so is that not the basic definition of paying a premium?? What is the other side of this coin that loopytush talks of? And please not the 'we will all pay more taxes and the economy will collapse' - can I add lol now that I am a big internet user?!! ;D
Please keep this thread going so that as many people as possible start to see the truth - it is not red-mist, but justified anger at NGNs.
As for the point that 'only one other thread has made any constructive points' - looking back through the thread many other contributors have expressed sound views ( theloft,drrdf3,firestop,GHall, kittycat , etc etc etc) has Martin himself not said he wants 'transparency' for these numbers and businesses to cease their use - is that not constructive? Others suggested writing to OFCOM and MPs - not constructive?
What is suggested - rolling over and accepting all bad laws?

Loopytush

Oh well I tried to apologise but some one obviously has the time to argue.

And no you could not rename the 0870 to premium as (as I have stated previously) the premium rate numbers all have fixed call charges and can never be used within inclusive minutes, unlike 0870.

If i have missed some other constructive comments then again I will apologise, however I think the jist was that most people were stated they should be classed as premium and this that and the other. Whereas the person I named has stated that they should be labelled with a warning. I mean if youy class them as premium then that means you have state the call charges. This is pretty much impossible as they are different depending on the telco you are calling from!

Ignorence or lack of knowledge - as stated when I said this it was not to be derogative. The fact that most of you did not know about the call queuing shows the lack of knowledge, but this is not a bad thing. Hence I stated that if any one had any questions regarding NGN (non Geographical Numbers) or PRS (Premium rate services) or PNS (Personal numbering services) then I would be happy to answer them.

payless

Call it what you like- but for the vast majority of users calling a 0870 ( and even an 0845) does ( or very soon will ) cost more than calling a standard landline - so to me they are charging a "premium" rate.

Loopytush

I am not disputing that, I am mearly trying to enlighten on the subject.

If you go and say you want them to be classed as premium rate you will not get anywhere.

However you go and ask them to be re-classified so that they carry a warning (even if it to check the calling charges) then you are being more realistic.

Did people know that BT themselves recently applied to have the calling charges for 0845 to be lowered? As far as I am aware they may still be discussing but the general outcome was that it was declined. This was due to the response from the companies in this multi billion pound industry.

System

Loopytush,

That's quite correct, BT unleashed a Leviathon with this, and now it's coming back to constrain them like a whiplash!

You offer to tell us the inside authoritive information if we ask you, so I have a few questions for you to use your expertise with, please.

Perhaps you can inform us of the exact position now with permissible revenue sharing on 070, 076, 077 and 078?

Also can you inform us of your opinion of why it was considered necessary by Oftel etc. with the New Telephone Numbering System to move Premium numbers all to be in the 09 category? Why could they not have left the where they were, with lots of different prefixes? Additionally, why did they decide to prohibit call queueing with 09 Premium numbers?

Thanks

payless

found some more orange freephone numbers
Freephone 0800 079 2288 Customer Relations
Freephone 0800 079 2222 Registrations
Freephone 0800 376 2285 Orange number porting
Freephone 0800 079 1050 Network faults
Freephone 0800 079 8081 Just Talk registration Information Line
Freephone 0800 079 0006 Just Talk registration
Freephone 0800 079 7979 Just Talk registration

System

All these 08/09 numbers have 'real' geographical numbers behind them - called the 'delivery number'.

I have sometimes called BT on 0800 110011 to find out the 'delivery number' so that the calls can be made cheaper!

System

Nice one, Howard, Payless.

Loopytush

'Premium' numbers costs can also vary, depending on the Telco.