Say No to 0870!

System

If all call providers were required by law to advise callers of the charges of the number they are calling after the call was dialled but before connection then many people would stop dialling expensive numbers!

Of course the only provider I know of that advises the cost of the call before the call is connected is 18866 - who just happens to be the cheapest!

Prior to that, Telecom Plus announced the cost when using its calling cards and, at the time, it too was the cheapest.

I don't think we need to ban 0870 numbers, we just need to legislate to ensure that the caller knows the true cost.

Loopytush

VARIOUS QUESTIONS ANSWERED:

Also can you inform us of your opinion of why it was considered necessary by Oftel etc. with the New Telephone Numbering System to move Premium numbers all to be in the 09 category?

This was done for two primary reasons.
1) It was considered that a more admin friendly set was required for billing purposes. As you would be aware there were many forms of the premium rate number. The new ranges are easily identifiable and each number range (25p, 50p etc) also has an adult and none adult version.
2) Beleive it or not it was also considered the clean up was required simply for number availability. With so many ranges (some not even being classified) the resync would clear up confusion and create possible future number ranges.

Additionally, why did they decide to prohibit call queueing with 09 Premium numbers?

As far as I am aware call queuing has never been allowed on premium rate numbers. If it has then it would be before my time.

Perhaps you can inform us of the exact position now with permissible revenue sharing on 070, 076, 077 and 078?

After the initial realisation of the mileading use of these numbers by various companies, including one very well known Adult ISP the first restriction was that end users of the PNS users were unable to receive a revenue. However since then the PNS numbering has come a long way with new prefixes etc.
Basically Ofcom have in a nutshell stated that the PNS services (070) now has to meet their guidlines. However these are pretty much open. They state that using these for sales etc may be deemed legitimate. The main error in use will now be where the number is not used for personal (individual use) so a comapny cannot use it an a generic access point, however they could issue all their sales staff which individual numbers and this would be permitted.

All these 08/09 numbers have 'real' geographical numbers behind them - called the 'delivery number'.

I have sometimes called BT on 0800 110011 to find out the 'delivery number' so that the calls can be made cheaper!

BT could only ever do this if they were the provider of the NGN. With other telcos now owning their own switches it is simply not possible. Also with the tightening if DPA laws you will find it hard pressed to get the "Delivery" (Actually Destibation) number from them. I would also not be suprised if you never actually got the true destination. If you went to BT asking about a number they can tell you:

• Cost of calling Number
• Number owner (i.e. Telco) & contact

If you were to be told that company X owned that number range then you could call them. However they by "LAW" cannot tell you the "Destination" number or even who uses the number. UNLESS

The company advertises this number to be associated with them (website, stationary etc). They could also advise you of any normal numbers associated with that company (advertised numbers) or numbers that the users have supplied for alternative access.

'Premium' numbers costs can also vary, depending on the Telco.

This is one of those correct but not correct ones. A premium rate range has a fixed charge, for the purpose of revenue etc. The only time I have seen a premium rate charge vary is with a mobile telco and this is not actually changing. What happens here is that the Telco have stated that they will allow you access to the number at the fixed rate, but then also charge you the standard calling rate. Therefore you are being charged the fixed rate but you are also paying your telco their call charges in return for them allowing you to call the number in the first place.

GENARAL WORD OF WARNING ABOUT PRS!

The guidelines are for UK numbers only. Most people think that (apart from Pay for product numbers) the highest PRS number you could call is £1.50. This is not correct. In fact there was a recent scam where a International PRS number was used. The people responsable would make a split second call to your mobile with a false CLI. Most curious people (even wise ones) did not recognise the number range and when they returned the call were instantly charged £50.00

If my answers are a little brief then I apologise but tI could be here all night.

System

Howard Halay,
I agree, that all calls to 0870/0845 should be prefixed by the price announcement. The technology is straight forward and this would produce the 'transparency' we all seem to wish for.

Loopytush,
Informative post, I may be softening towards you

Paul_Varjak

LOOPYTUSH:

You are correct that BT can only provide the delivery number for 0870/0871/09 etc. numbers for which they are the provider.

The number 0800 110011 is used by owners of such numbers to report faults and change delivery numbers etc. It is also used (or at least was when I was a BT Operator) to report faults on such numbers.

And any request of BT to provide the delivery number may well be an offence under the Data Protection Act!

Loopytush

jbp435:

Thanks for your comments. I have never intended to get peoples backs up. And as I have stated I will try and help as much as possible.

Yes I do have an interest in the numbers but I do not like misuse and certainly dont agree with all the rules. I just think that a meduim has to be found that suits both consumer and business. Hence I like the idea regarding the warning or icon to identify the misleading call charges.

System

Loopytush

Indeed, it was mobile telcos, in the main, that I was referring to.

Loopytush

Just realised another good point about 0870!

If you call a number in the Channel isalnds and other such entities of UK from your monile you are actually charged an International rate. Ok this is not the highest, but why not get "Aunty Carol" let you point an 0870 number to her.

You would then only be charged the standard landline rate for calling her. Obviously slect tariffs on select networks may charge they little extra for 0870, but:

o2 - Not only same rate but included in free minutes
Voda - Charged at standard rate.

System

Just a thought, maybe it's been aired already, but here goes anyway.
After July, when BT has all the customers on it's 'Option' packages, we will, presumably, 'lose' the pricing column currently labelled 'Standard' - which quotes the 7.9p/min daytime national rate. The only call charges for 'national and local' calls will be the 3p and 1p as in the present 'Option1' column.
If 0870 is then still advertised as 'National Charge Rate' will this not create more confusion ? What is the definition, then, of a National Call Charge? Bring in Trades description/Advertising Standards??!! ???
Apologies if this has been asked before, and , yes loopytush we all got a bit carried away earlier. Peace, brother

theloft

Looks like we have ourselves a love in !

Like the idea of Trades Description etc. for National Rate.
Can we all complain again to Ofcom, will it do any good ?

Martin, have you decided whether to run this on a National Campaign basis yet ?

System

JPB435,

If you had sent in a consultation response to Ofcom you would have noticed that Ofcom are planning to rename these call rates to “Low call” and “Midi-call” to overcome the problem that resulted for them from BT's latest gambit for limiting free competition.

This is to supposedly completely divorce the 0845 and 0870 rates from direct association with BT's call rates in future, so that they can continue to keep them high, although BT's rates will now be lower, so that the Premiums can be kept at the same level as at present, to keep the scam going without driving the struggling organisations who benefit from them into insolvency!!!