Say No to 0870!

System

theloft.
Thanks for the support, we have to realise that on sites like this there are bound to be 'the other side' representatives trying to suggest that 'it's only a few pence - so it doesn't matter!', and 'you won't get anywhere with a campaign'. As you say, the principle of covert premium charges is what annoys. I hate being given no option but to phone these numbers, and do use my perogative not to do business with them - but there are times when there is no alternative.

Loopytush

FIRESTOP:

Dont get me wrong I understand the argument.

You say what should you do for DVLA entitlement, get on a bus to swansea, then my answer is yes. If you dont want to send a letter (which is there preferred method) then why should the company pay to hire staff to answer the phone or have pabx recordings just because you dont want to send a letter?

Yes (with the flight situation) companies do have insurance, but is not just another cost that the company has to pay out of there profits? All i am saying is that we expect too much for too little for example

You book a flight. Straight away the comapny has to pay the following:

1) Bank charges for recieiving payment.
2) Administration cost on the systems they have paid millions for.
3) Communication costs - tickets etc.
4) Insurance for such things as cancelations.
5) Airplane maintanence
6) Staff for plane
7) fuel
the list goes on

The flight gets cancelled and they want to refund you, they then have to pay:

1) Bank charges to make payment
2) Communication for letters etc
3) Administration on the systems
4) Staff to admin the process etc

Now you as the customer get a full refund. They are out of pocket on your purchase.

If they were to say what the hell lets give them a normal number or freephone number I will GARAUNTEE you that the cost of the tickets would increase straight away, and guess who will be moaning?

The senario can be applied to ALL purchases/ services.

At the end of the day we all want lifes luxuries and want them at rock bottom prices. And now on top of it we are complaining about having to call an NGN number to get them or administer them.

As I see it and clearly companies, the consumer wants cheap goods and services, which in most industries they comply with. And now we are complaining that out of the decreased profits that the comapnies will not foot the bill for such things as customer service?

A simple way to look at it is that the apart from the staffing of telephone lines etc, the revenue availble on NGN would probably only just cover the cost of the line rental they pay for the line in the first place. Now as I have stated before the use of 0870 to cover this cost is open to absolutley anybody so its not a monopoly.

In overview as I have stated aswell, a national campaign alone would not work (this has been proved many times over). However using common sense us the public can change company views on the 0870 situation so that when it comes to 087 ranges not only the public but the business sector (and these are the people thar rule the country not the goverment) will be asking for the number range to be re-classified. Even then they will never be re-classed as premium rate.

And before anyone says that this is all theory etc, I have approx 10 years experience in telecommunication business and technical, so I do know what I am talking about.

And even though I disagree with a lot of principles of telecoms rather than sit around and complain to my friends and fellow board members I use the very same principles to make myself a little extra cash. Agreed i do it on a larger scale and that way I can call it a second income but anybody with sense can work out, lets call them loopholes, and earn enough to:

a) Cover costs of having to call 087 ranges
b) Make a big difference to the way the business ector see this number range.

System

Loopylush.
Selective answers again! Still no response on entitlements issue or the Kittycat example.
All is becoming clear, however, as you said earlier and are now alluding to again, you presumably have an 0870 number of your own and earn money by making companies phone you so you get commission. Following your argument through, this means you are causing them EVEN MORE - rather negating your 'poor airline' refunds argument. Thus you are increasing their costs, so, (according to your theory) they will have to put up their prices - to us - to pay YOU!!!
Is this not the action of a moral bankrupt??
Unlike yourself, who obviously just wants to join in any money-making scheme for self advancement, I just want some justice for consumers who should be getting a fair deal.
Employed in the telecoms industry for ten years, eh, you have obviously learned your con tricks from the best teachers!

System

Loopylush.
Apologies, I threw in DVLA as another Gov agency, nothing to do with 'entitlements', as your reply seemed to suggest - to my knowledge DVLA entitlements does not exist.

Loopytush

I would suggest that you rephrase the "Con tricks" before I take offence.

Entitlements - Well this is basic maths. With the increase of claimers (legitimate or not) then why should the govermant not make a the extra money to pay for the staff to answer the phone for those that cannot or are just to lazy to go to the local benefits office. I am sure there would be many complaints if they withdraw the telephone service, or should we let them continue with the telephone service and put a normal number to use. That would be fun as the telephone queues would be longer, oh and the average persons tax would have to increase to cover the loss of revenue. I am sure you would complain then.

Kiitykay Issue
Either I am misunderstanding you or you cannot read as I have listed my thoughts on this. But hey lets do the same with this cancel all the 087 numbers and to replace the revenue put the airline prices up, wonder who would complain then.

Me having 0870

If you bothered to read the posts more you would see that maybe they would need to make the extra money to call me but at the end of it the more people that did this the more that not only the consumers but the business would complain at the call charges or classification of the numbers. After all who do you think would have more impact on complaining about 0870? A group of consumers who begrduge paying to get something or businesses who generate millions towards the countries financial equity?

Unlike myself, you are obviously wanting everything for cheap and presume that it is your right when the bottom line you have no rights to such things (air flights, cable tv, mobile phone, any service of such), I am beinf realistic and making the most of a bad thing, oh and throwing the extra money in to cover the benefits to those that claim, whether by phone or person.

Yes employed for 10 years in Telecom & Internet for over 10 years so maybe I have learnt a few tricks, but I have also learnt that there is very little point in trying to change a multi billion pound industry. And even if you did change the results would have you complaining even more when the tax man takes more of you and the general living costs increase.

Let me put in another way:

Take the recent firemen strikes for instance. They wanted more money for the job they do (just like you want cheaper calls). Maybe they deserve the extra money (and maybe the telco needs a reshuffle). However this was gone about in the completly wrong way. Are the firemen illiterate? Did they not know what the salary was before they took the job?   (just liuke we know what  call charges are for number ranges). Should they not have considered the wage before taking the job (much like any one that uses the telephone should of considered the industry charges). Instead they went on strike putting lifes at risk. And by complaining or starting a campaign about 087 then you would be doing it wrong. If you win like the firemena then the end result would be price increases or service effecting.

Martin forgive me for this one but the fundimentals are the true.

You state that I am out to make money any way I can. Well you are clever. Do you think this forum is here for the good of any ones heart? Dont be daft this site makes someone money and at the end of the day although dictated by the users the main purpose of the site is to make some one extra money. I have seen a few plugs for Martins book are you complaining about that as it is selling something on a money saving site, erm no.

Has martin spent his precious time writting a book on saving money out of the kindness of his heart, erm no.

So if i can make money off something i dont agree with and you dont like it then wind ya neck in. But at the end if anything ever changes to suit your opion in telecoms then you can smile and think i did that. Whereas I can not only smile and think I did that but I can then afford all the price increases that take place as a result. Where as you would move onto more minor complaining.

If people want to compalin about things that effect the general public then my suggestion is that:

a) if they can reap benefits from these very same services they are complaining about then do so and make a real difference.

b) complain about more worth while issues such as:

{part of post deleted by martin - this got completely off topic - to try and get this section back to 0870 i have deleted it - sorry}

Loopytush

DRAWING THE LINE.

As you can see the debate can go on for a long long time. And never will every ones views be the same.

But what is better

1) Complaining about an issue
or
2) Complaining about an issue and making a few extra quid in the process. Bearing on mind that few extra quid would bring on side a more powerful allie of the businesses.

mad_cash_cow

Criminal Records Bureau

The only way to get this disclosure from this government agency (ie funded by our taxes) seems to be an 0870 number. They will therefore be getting a top-up fee from my call, which is not disclosed on their website under fees at all. Then, once I start to do the work, they will also have a slice of the tax.

Following from my earlier posting, is Loopytush suggesting that I should travel from my home in the south west up to Liverpool to get the disclosure that I require? The process will require a 2 way exchange of information, and so "snail-mail"would set my employment back by several weeks. There does not seem to be an e-mail form, so the electronic route is unavailable.
I fail to see the justification for an 0870 number when the stated fee charged for the service could be made to include call centre costs. This is a covert top-up.

trafalgar_2

"However this was gone about in the completly wrong way. Are the firemen illiterate? Did they not know what the salary was before they took the job? "

Off topic but I can't let that pass sorry............................if the employer changed your job discription and wanted more for their money ..................................would you have a point to argue ....or would that be ok because you took the job in the first place :-/

MSE_Martin

OK first of all may I request we get this back on topic and remember to keep it as polite as possible.

On the direct merits of a campaign. For me this is an issue of transparency. Companies covertly charge via 0870. Yet comparison of overt charges is better, so if real prices went up, at least people would know what they are paying and be able to compare adequately.

Let me qualify the aims of the campaign though

1. Awareness: Simply making everyone aware of the costs of 0870 and the fact companies are often raising revenue from it
2. Change: My aim would be to change the large companies who use 0870 - to ask each to withdraw their numbers and work on normal numbers.

I have no problem with 0870 numbers in themselves - providing people know they are revenue raising low rate premium numbers. Then when they are used people are aware of the system.

Easycar offers a premium rate number for its customer service - this is hideous - but honest - it makes a fortune and says "we dont do phone service, if you want you must pay for it".

Martin

Loopytush

Thank you Martin for putting out the fire. And I would support any campaign to have the numbers rebranded. Although I think premium rate is a bit harsh.

In the meantime if any one wants to know how to turn the tables and earn a bit from these in normal everday life without doing anything they would not normally do then i would be happy to point them in the right direction