Less than 12 weeks pregnant club! Part 3

sweaty_betty

an9i77 wrote: »

Hi Abi - good to see you back here again, I think it is your turn to be lucky this time. I'm 11weeks today - the first few weeks crawled but the last few have flown. I've had a fair few private scans to put my mind at ease - expensive but better than worrying. Besides I found somewhere that does them for £45 which is pretty good, so that's kind of eased the cost a bit as a lot of places are around the £100 mark.

I'm really undecided on whether to have the nuchal scan, what do people think ? (of the test, I know no one can make my mind up for me) For my age group there is a 1/300 chance of downs which is pretty low really, but 1/30 women have a positive nuchal test which means a 90% false positive rate if my maths is right?

I didn't have one with DS and he was fine.

I'm thinking I'll just chance it. We chance lots of things in life , usually because there's no other alternative, and the vast vast majority are ok.

Besides apparantly 15% of downs babies are not picked up by the test anyway.

I think it might just be really stressful if I got a false positive, and then had to have the test than can cause mc, plus all the waiting and worrying etc.

Interested if other people have decided what to do.

Hello there - I've been thinking this one through too.

Apparently my age-related odds are also 1/300, but then they take into account my weight, diabetes, etc (which apparently are likely to increase the risk ) THEN the results of the blood test and nuchal fold scan. So, apparently, the odds can go down as well as up (which is good!).

I asked the obs consultant if there was any point in me having it as my age/weight/diabetes would make it a foregone conclusion that I'd be high risk. He gave me some speech about how they take a number of factors into consideration - although as he then insisted that the nuchal fold scan had to be done at 11 weeks (not between 11w 3d-13w6d) I'm not sure I've much confidence in what he had to say!

Then I spoke to the screening midwife who just kept asking me if I was sure that I wanted the test - as if she was trying to talk me out of it - which made me think that she thought I was definitely a contender for being high risk!

My view is that I'm going to have the test. If it comes back high risk we can prepare ourselves for the possibility that there will be problems (although I'm hoping they'll tell us if our odds are 1/2 or 1/100). At the moment (although I know I might change my mind) I don't want an amnio, because I don't want to risk a miscarriage.

I think I will be worried if it comes back high risk, but equally I might be kicking myself once I get past 14w mark and I can no longer have the nuchal test.

Does anyone know if there are any other markers for Down's etc that would be picked up on later scans (so that I can hang on to hope in case it's bad news)?

It's such a tough call to make though:(

lilymay1

Sweaty - There is a blood test that can be done at 15 weeks though this is not routine and is usually only done if they suspect you may carry the faulty gene that can cause downs. There are 2 types of DS; totally random and hereditary.

Yes, there are numerous physical (or soft) markers for downs; I had a lot of downs screening with DD and they looked for abnormal cranial capacity, short femurs, problems with the pelvis, problems with the umbilical cord and issues with the bowel. That's not an exhaustive list btw.

The only way to confirm though is through an amnio. My mum had one with me in the 1980's as she had ready had a downs pregnancy (that she had terminated) and did not want another.

I will be having downs screening but only to prepare us for whatever the results may be

an9i77

Sweaty, maybe your doctor needs to read up on his research

Epidemiological evidence that maternal diabetes does not appear to increase the risk for Down syndrome.

Mart!nez-Fr!as ML, Rodr!guez-Pinilla E, Bermejo E, Prieto L.
Source

ECEMC and Departamento de Farmacolog!a, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain. [EMAIL="luisama@eucmos.sim.ucm.es"]luisama@eucmos.sim.ucm.es[/EMAIL]

Abstract

In 1997, Narchi and Kulaylat, studying the incidence of Down syndrome in infants of gestational diabetic mothers, concluded that maternal diabetes increases the risk for Down syndrome, but failed to control the maternal age in their analysis. Using data from the Spanish Collaborative Study of Congenital Malformations (ECEMC), we analyzed the relationship between Down syndrome and maternal diabetes mellitus, and maternal gestational diabetes, controlling the maternal age through the pair-matching analysis, stratifying by maternal age and logistic regression analysis. The analyses show that maternal age is related either to Down syndrome as well as to both types of maternal diabetes. Thus, the overall analysis could be confounded by maternal age. Once we controlled the maternal age, the risk of maternal diabetes mellitus for Down syndrome is: odds ratio (OR) = 0.92 (0.41-2.07); P = 0.83. Controlling maternal age in gestational diabetes, the risk is OR = 1.18 (0.61-2.35); P > 0.70. Based on our results, we conclude that Down syndrome is related to maternal age, but does not seem to be related to any type of maternal diabetes


Sounds like some research was done back in the 90s that got everyone in a flap about a link, but they didn't factor in maternal age which is what made the difference.

Logically I don't see why diabetes would make a difference to a chromosomal problem as most of the problems seem to be to do with how the baby forms if the blood sugar is high early in the pregnancy, obviously a chromosomal problem is there from the very start. I've never heard of diabetes causing chromosomal problems before and am quite sure this would result in a lot more losses to diabetic ladies if true.

MoneySavingMamma

Not doing great at staying away!
Anyway i'm here for a moan as I feel like hell! So sick, so tired, and so miserable! I have serious bad attitude today! If i'm not stropping I'm crying! Little one is getting over being ill, but I think he's using it for attention now! Big screams until he gets his own way! God how will I put up with 2 under 2!
Getting frustrated that i could go through all this for nothing, again!
Only positive is alot more symptoms than last time, so fingers crossed more symptoms = more luck!

sophiasmum

Sweaty Betty - When I came back high risk on my last pregnancy with the triple test (which as I said before completely ruined the pregnancy for me), I paid privately to have the quad test (still high risk) but I had a detailed scan where they looked for markers. My baby showed no markers - they did suggest an amnio at every turn but I was adamant I wasnt having it. Im def not going through this again this time - what will be will be. You need to think about what you are going to do if your result comes back high risk as there is lots of pressure to have an amnio. My age would make me high risk Im sure this time!

sophiasmum

By the way - they were still looking for markers with me at the 20 week scan so there is def hope to cling too Good luck with your decision x I think its the hardest one.

fluffysox

sali84 wrote: »

Hi all, how's everyone doing?

Can anyone recommend a good pregnancy book? I've had a quick look online but there are so many I'm not sure where to start!

Got my meeting with the midwife on 2nd April to do my pregnancy notes before my booking appointment and scan on the 10th. I'm assuming they'll take blood at the booking appointment rather than on the home visit?

Hope everyone is well

For the pregnancy books have you thought about trying the library? Hadn't been to library in a few years before DS arrived. but going with baby to classes and to get board books regularly I have noticed they have loads of up to date books on pregnancy and parenting. If you get attached to one you can renew it or buy it from amazon etc.
Re: blood tests I wouldn't know sorry, in my area the booking in, including the blood tests, BMI check and family history all happen on the same day as the 12 week scan.

an9i77

I've been doing some research on the net and there is an alternative to an amnio/ invasive test, that detects 99% of downs with NO risk of mc. I think what I will do is not have the nuchal test, but if a scan at 20 weeks identified any soft markers that meant downs was a real possibilty, pay for the expensive test. Because no one is putting a needle inside my womb whilst I am pregnant! From what I've read, the nuchal test is fine if you come back low risk, but identifies a lot of high risk women where nothing is wrong, and they then have to decide whether to have an amnio etc. I just don't think I could ever forgive myself if I had an amnio and I was one of the unlucky 1-2% that lost the baby. I'd rather pay for the expensive test, even if it is £750 (scary face emoticon) than risk that.

Its called a harmony test if anyone is interested.

pigpen

Why would you not have the nuchal test if it is offered? It is just a tiny measurement which is what they are doing anyway.. They write on the scan report the measurement and it is 'low risk' if under 6mm.. So you can see it yourself it is fine. It has 0% chance of mc and will indicate if there is a need for further checks.. if the NT comes back low risk you get to save your £750.. or you can have it done anyway.

Having a high risk result at 11/12 weeks and further checks even with a tiny risk of MC have to be better than a termination for abnormality/Downs at 20+ weeks..

an9i77

Pigpen I think Sophiasmum's post says it all. Its because of the risk of getting a false positive and having to then decide whether to have an amnio or not. I've heard a lot of stories of ladies who regretted having the test as they were then identified as high risk and had to either have the amnio or worry throughout the rest of the pregnancy.

Most women who get a high risk result go on to be absolutely fine, also around 20% of downs cases are not picked up by the test, so its the test itself that I don't agree with, I think it has the potential to cause a lot of unnecessary worry, and I know that it would completely freak me out to come back as high risk. Also, even if the risk of a mc with an amnio is quite low I just don't like the idea of them poking around in there, just in case.

My risk of downs based on age alone is 1/300, which means if I had 300 babies (!), 299 would be completely normal, so this to me is not a high enough risk to be worth risking all the worry of doing the test and getting a positive result which happens to one woman out of 30.

With my son I just thought the risk (1/500 then) was so low as to not be worth worrying about, and it's gone up to 1/300 now but I still think that's low enough.

Of course, I am taking a chance and could end up giving birth to a downs child, but then that could happen anyway even if I do the test (much lower chance obv but still possible). Or any one of a number of negative things could happen to the baby that they can't test for or diagnose prior to birth. I don't have a choice about those.

I'm still confused, but leaning towards not having the test. If its causing me this much stress just thinking about it, god knows what I'd be like if the result came back as high risk. And then it's bye bye to £750.