Flight delay and cancellation compensation, KLM/AF ONLY

TrAr

Hi everyone,

Apologies if this has been asked elsewhere, I have looked but can't find any mention.

We were caught up in the Air France pilot strike in September 2014; I initially thought we wouldn't be entitled to compensation as it's industrial action and therefore exceptional circumstances. However, I have recently read here and elsewhere that strikes by the airlines staff aren't including in exceptional circumstances.
We were due to fly out from Mauritius with Air France on Wednesday 17th September, flying to CDG and then on to Manchester on Thursday morning but our flights were cancelled. We were informed the day before and were given alternative flights leaving early Thursday morning from Mauritius with Air Mauritius (part of AF group) to Johannesburg where we had an 8 hour wait before getting on a BA flight to Heathrow and then finally another BA flight to Manchester, eventually arriving on Friday morning.
On being offered these flights, we expressed that we weren't satisfied with them, that we had checked the Emirates site and were aware that there were still flights available on their flight from Mauritius to Manchester leaving slightly earlier on the 17th, and we wanted putting on this flight, but had no success.
We also requested access to the AF lounge at Johannesburg as obviously we had no SA Rand, but got no response from AF, no help at the airport and no support with food and drink.

Do we actually have a claim? If so, is it classed as a cancellation or a delay?

Thanks in advance.

Tara

Howikay

Hi there - help please?

I was delayed by 9 hours on a Delta airlines flight from San Fran to London (via LA) last month. Most of the delay was the SF to LA trip, and then they rerouted me via JFK which added on more hours! I booked it all as one trip.

They've just responded to my compensation request saying:

Your compensation request under EC Regulation 261/2004 cannot be granted, as the delayed flight (DL 6447 San Francisco - Los Angeles) is outside the regulations' scope (Art 3), being operated by a non-community carrier and departing from an airport located outside the territory of a EU state.

So essentially they're saying I'm not eligible to compensation because it was the connecting US flight that was delayed, even though that impacted my US - UK flight which I had booked entirely through them.

Sounds crazy. Anything I can do?

Vauban

If you flew into the UK on a non-European airline (like Delta) then Regulation 261/04 doesn't apply.

Howikay

No way, that sucks

Anything I can do? Or am I not eligible for anything?

Caz3121

Howikay wrote: »

No way, that sucks

Anything I can do? Or am I not eligible for anything?

speak to your travel insurance and see what they pay out, some give £20 for each 12 hour delay so you may get nothing for 9 hours but it will depend on your policy
Next time book with an EU carrier if you want EU261 protection

jemilyuk

Hiya,

I have tried to claim for a cancelled flight with Air France in 2011 but they are saying they can't do anything as I don't have the booking reference or ticket. I contacted them again with our passport numbers so they could confirm we were booked on the cancelled flight but they said they cannot check and it is my responsibility to prove it.

It was a package holiday booked with Disneyland Paris directly and I no longer have any correspondence regarding it :-( Is there anything else I can do please?

Thanks

H_Rubinfeld

My story is that I flew from NY JFK to Nice, France and then from Nice to Tel Aviv. In short, the Nice to Tel Aviv flight was delayed 10 hours (with no advance notice) and then they put us on a flight to Rome where we again waited and finally they flew us to Tel Aviv and we landed 33 hours after our original landing time.

I contacted them and they said:

There are extraordinary circumstances, such as severe weather conditions, which affect our operations and result in unavoidable delays and cancellations. Because of the unforeseen nature of these circumstances, they are considered to be beyond our control. Therefore, no compensation is due.

So I wrote to them and said:

Your reply on 19 August 2015 is not acceptable. Please see here XXXXXXX in "Note 3" where it says:

That in each of the following examples, the air carrier
must provide proof of the circumstances alleged and it must
also clearly demonstrate how these circumstances resulted in
the flight disruption

If you can provide proof, please send that ASAP. If not, my claim of 800 EURO per passenger remains.

where XXXXXXX (I can't post links on this forum) is a link to a PDF entitled "Draft list of extraordinary circumstances following the National Enforcement Bodies (NEB) meeting held on 12 April 2013". If you Google for that you find it's the first result.

Now they replied again:

There are however extraordinary circumstances such as weather conditions which affect our operations and result in unavoidable delays and cancellations. Because of the unforeseen nature of these circumstances, they are considered to be beyond our control.

According to the Israeli current legislation, no compensation is due in such cases.

Therefore, having carefully looked into your request again, I unfortunately cannot comply with your request for compensation.

They added the line about "Israeli current legislation." I indeed live in Israel, but I believe they must adhere to EU laws.

I think Air France is trying to trick me. I suppose my options now are:

1 Contact the ECC
2 Hire a lawyer
3 File a claim in Small Claims Court (in Israel)

Can anyone provide any advice?

JPears

If Air France refuse to tell you the reason for delay, then you usually have no option but to take legal action.
Do you know what the reason for delay was?
The NEB list you have quoted, is usually, regarded as bunkum by the majority of this forum and by most UK courts
If you have a small claims court system in Israel, its possible to take action, but would an Israeli court recognise EU legislation?
And how would an Israeli court enforce an EU regulation, either in Israel or in the EU? Curious.
Perhaps if you have an address in UK to can use and use UK legal system (imbalanced as it is)?
AFAIK the EU regulation applies to the passenger irrespective of their nationality.

Caz3121

Have you checked flightstats to check if other flights were affected in NCE or TLV on your date?
Where do you get a claim of €800 per passenger from?

H_Rubinfeld

Caz3121 wrote: »

Where do you get a claim of €800 per passenger from?

Upon review of the page on this site, it seems €600 is actually correct. Ooops.

JPears wrote: »

The NEB list you have quoted, is usually, regarded as bunkum by the majority of this forum and by most UK courts

Oh. Good to know.

JPears wrote: »

Do you know what the reason for delay was?

I know no more than you--their letter doesn't say and flights from jetblue and ezjet left Nice during our wait. I don't know where they were headed however.

JPears wrote: »

If Air France refuse to tell you the reason for delay, then you usually have no option but to take legal action.
...
AFAIK the EU regulation applies to the passenger irrespective of their nationality.

That's what I thought. But one would have to take legal action in the EU for that. I don't have a UK address although I could find one. But wouldn't I be wanting to file in France?

Seems like taking legal assistance in the EU would be best here. I'm guessing....

Thank you both for responding!