Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Ryanair ONLY

eskbanker

There's no compensation due as such when cancellations are notified over 14 days in advance but when Ryanair cancelled the flight, they're obliged to offer you the choice between a refund or rerouting, on another airline if necessary.  Did you ask them to rebook you onto the Volotea flight and/or make it clear that you'd be holding them liable for the additional cost?

CKhalvashi

Ryanair are not responsible for missed connections as with the exception of a few routes through Bergamo they don't sell connecting flights.

You had the choice between re-booking (onto another carrier if necessary) or a refund and it seems from what you've posted you have accepted the refund. The liability of Ryanair ends there and once the choice is made it cannot be changed.

Alicantesquirrel

First time compensation claimer after a 3+ hour delay on arrival and have looked through the last few weeks posts but didn’t see an answer…

I used the form on the Ryanair website, but when I complete that process, it says “you are not entitled to compensation” as the flight was “disrupted due to air traffic control restrictions which was beyond our control”. It then goes on to say that if I wish to contest this (which I do), then I can take it to my ADR body.

I then went to the uk ADR, but I am asked there if I have claimed against the airline in writing and if so, do I have a final decision letter from them etc.

so, my question is whether the response on the Ryanair website to my claim there is effectively their final response or whether I still need to issue Ryanair with a letter and if so, where do I send it.

all help welcome, I get the feeling that this an end to end process designed to confuse and frustrate the end customer and it is working well….

CKhalvashi

Alicantesquirrel said:

First time compensation claimer after a 3+ hour delay on arrival and have looked through the last few weeks posts but didn’t see an answer…

I used the form on the Ryanair website, but when I complete that process, it says “you are not entitled to compensation” as the flight was “disrupted due to air traffic control restrictions which was beyond our control”. It then goes on to say that if I wish to contest this (which I do), then I can take it to my ADR body.

I then went to the uk ADR, but I am asked there if I have claimed against the airline in writing and if so, do I have a final decision letter from them etc.

so, my question is whether the response on the Ryanair website to my claim there is effectively their final response or whether I still need to issue Ryanair with a letter and if so, where do I send it.

all help welcome, I get the feeling that this an end to end process designed to confuse and frustrate the end customer and it is working well….

You'll need a copy of it, but yes, that will be a final response from Ryanair.

If that was the reason for the delay (you will have to prove it wasn't) then Ryanair are correct.

eskbanker

CKhalvashi said:

Alicantesquirrel said:

First time compensation claimer after a 3+ hour delay on arrival and have looked through the last few weeks posts but didn’t see an answer…

I used the form on the Ryanair website, but when I complete that process, it says “you are not entitled to compensation” as the flight was “disrupted due to air traffic control restrictions which was beyond our control”. It then goes on to say that if I wish to contest this (which I do), then I can take it to my ADR body.

I then went to the uk ADR, but I am asked there if I have claimed against the airline in writing and if so, do I have a final decision letter from them etc.

so, my question is whether the response on the Ryanair website to my claim there is effectively their final response or whether I still need to issue Ryanair with a letter and if so, where do I send it.

all help welcome, I get the feeling that this an end to end process designed to confuse and frustrate the end customer and it is working well….

You'll need a copy of it, but yes, that will be a final response from Ryanair.

If that was the reason for the delay (you will have to prove it wasn't) then Ryanair are correct.

The regulations place the burden of proof on the airline but they'll probably only offer a meaningful explanation once into the ADR or court processes:

An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

Alicantesquirrel

eskbanker said:

CKhalvashi said:

Alicantesquirrel said:

First time compensation claimer after a 3+ hour delay on arrival and have looked through the last few weeks posts but didn’t see an answer…

I used the form on the Ryanair website, but when I complete that process, it says “you are not entitled to compensation” as the flight was “disrupted due to air traffic control restrictions which was beyond our control”. It then goes on to say that if I wish to contest this (which I do), then I can take it to my ADR body.

I then went to the uk ADR, but I am asked there if I have claimed against the airline in writing and if so, do I have a final decision letter from them etc.

so, my question is whether the response on the Ryanair website to my claim there is effectively their final response or whether I still need to issue Ryanair with a letter and if so, where do I send it.

all help welcome, I get the feeling that this an end to end process designed to confuse and frustrate the end customer and it is working well….

You'll need a copy of it, but yes, that will be a final response from Ryanair.

If that was the reason for the delay (you will have to prove it wasn't) then Ryanair are correct.

The regulations place the burden of proof on the airline but they'll probably only offer a meaningful explanation once into the ADR or court processes:

An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

Thanks both. I have submitted a claim via aviationadr and provided screenshots of the Ryanair webform as evidence so will see what happens. The “disrupted due to air traffic control restrictions” sounds very generic and feels against the intent where ATC strikes (not the much more general term “restrictions”) are specifically mentioned as an example of an issue outwith the airline’s control, so I wanted to challenge it.

eskbanker

Alicantesquirrel said:
The “disrupted due to air traffic control restrictions” sounds very generic and feels against the intent where ATC strikes (not the much more general term “restrictions”) are specifically mentioned as an example of an issue outwith the airline’s control, so I wanted to challenge it.

Not sure where you're getting the reference to (and specific significance of) ATC strikes from, but the regulations refer to the impact of ATC decisions so it's a pretty low bar for airlines to meet, especially when there are widespread ATC disruptions across Europe for a variety of staff- and weather-related reasons:

Extraordinary circumstances should be deemed to exist where the impact of an air traffic management decision in relation to a particular aircraft on a particular day gives rise to a long delay, an overnight delay, or the cancellation of one or more flights by that aircraft, even though all reasonable measures had been taken by the air carrier concerned to avoid the delays or cancellations.

Caz3121

Alicantesquirrel said:

Thanks both. I have submitted a claim via aviationadr and provided screenshots of the Ryanair webform as evidence so will see what happens. The “disrupted due to air traffic control restrictions” sounds very generic and feels against the intent where ATC strikes (not the much more general term “restrictions”) are specifically mentioned as an example of an issue outwith the airline’s control, so I wanted to challenge it.

Air Traffic is not controlled by the airlines so any restrictions causing delays would not be liable for compensation - unlike a technical issue with the aircraft which would.
I have in the last few weeks had 2 delays caused by Air Traffic Restrictions in Europe due weather reducing flow. First one resulted in missed connection and 6 hour+ delay on arrival. The second again was a missed connection and resulted in overnight stay and 12+ hours delayed arrival. Neither of which qualify for compensation from the airline.
Were you told an alternative reason for the delay that makes you sure Air Traffic was not the reason?

Alicantesquirrel

Caz3121 said:

Alicantesquirrel said:

Thanks both. I have submitted a claim via aviationadr and provided screenshots of the Ryanair webform as evidence so will see what happens. The “disrupted due to air traffic control restrictions” sounds very generic and feels against the intent where ATC strikes (not the much more general term “restrictions”) are specifically mentioned as an example of an issue outwith the airline’s control, so I wanted to challenge it.

Air Traffic is not controlled by the airlines so any restrictions causing delays would not be liable for compensation - unlike a technical issue with the aircraft which would.
I have in the last few weeks had 2 delays caused by Air Traffic Restrictions in Europe due weather reducing flow. First one resulted in missed connection and 6 hour+ delay on arrival. The second again was a missed connection and resulted in overnight stay and 12+ hours delayed arrival. Neither of which qualify for compensation from the airline.
Were you told an alternative reason for the delay that makes you sure Air Traffic was not the reason?

I wasn’t given any reason for the delay until I went to submit a claim as promoted to me by the airline themselves when the flight was delayed. First I saw ATC being mentioned was when I followed the airline’s process.

I was provided with a guide to EU261 by them and in it, there is a line about “extraordinary circumstances not limited to….. labour disputes or failure or delay of air traffic control facilities” - none of which I would have thought matched “air traffic restrictions”.

so should I just accept an airline when it says it was air traffic restrictions that were the root cause or challenge them to prove that was the case, given there is no evidence available that I can view right now.

This is my first time experiencing a delay that meets the eu261 qualifying period and hence the claim process and it is as vague and challenging as I feared.

eskbanker

Alicantesquirrel said:

I was provided with a guide to EU261 by them and in it, there is a line about “extraordinary circumstances not limited to….. labour disputes or failure or delay of air traffic control facilities” - none of which I would have thought matched “air traffic restrictions”.

It's the regulations themselves that govern this, rather than any individual airline's interpretation of them (although that does say "not limited to" the given examples) - the wording I quoted above is recital 15 at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2004/261/introduction

Alicantesquirrel said:
so should I just accept an airline when it says it was air traffic restrictions that were the root cause or challenge them to prove that was the case, given there is no evidence available that I can view right now.

If you've already submitted your claim to AviationADR, you might as well let it run now, but don't get your hopes up! Ryanair's documentation that they supply to AviationADR will show their workings, in terms of exactly how, and for how long, the ATC restrictions impacted this flight's schedule - unfortunately there's still no independent public domain data to challenge this with but chances are it'll be presented in a credible way.