Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Ryanair ONLY

Tim_Q

In June my mother and father were delayed by more than six hours coming back to Stansted from Vilnius, arriving in the UK at about 1am. The plane they should have been on arrived on time but their flight was almost immediately cancelled so they had to wait for the next flight home at the airport with little in the way of food and drink. Using guidance from MSE, I filled in the compensation form on the Ryanair website, claiming the full compensation possible and attaching copies of screen images of their delayed flight and the movements of the 737 that they should have flown on which departed the next morning from Vilnius to Oslo. I got a reply from Ryanair within a week saying they would send the compensation to my parents' account and 10 days after that we received 400 euros each compensation. Well done Ryanair :j

themass

Tyzap wrote: »

Hi themass,

When you say ombudsman do you mean Bott & Co?

No the retail Ombudsman,,, B&C are dealing with the delay.


https://www.aviationadr.org.uk/how-to-complain-about/airline-complaints/

legal_magpie

It is interesting to compare these rules with those of CEDR. Rule 11 provides for a fine of £100 to be imposed on the airline if it fails to comply with the adjudicator's decision. There is no such provision in the CEDR rules, which may explain why Thomson consistently flout their decisions.

spiro

Having watched Wednesday's WatchDog try this - https://www.aviationadr.org.uk/

joncass

Hi,
I used resolver and yesterday RA offered €500, result!

mikeb1

Hi All
Ryanair refunded me weeks ago for a fight delay, but send the refund to Teletext who booked the original holiday, despite several phone calls and emails they have still not send us the money, I contacted the Teletext person on here, but they have blanked me too. How do I get this horrid company to pay out ?

benhamnett

Hi guys, long time reader, first time poster....I'm currently taking action against Ryanair after my flight was cancelled - they're replied to my court case, I've been reading Dr Watson's great thread and gotten as far as the defendant (Ryanair)'s reply...

Just wondered if I can post their reply on here and perhaps get a bit of help deciphering it all?


Thanks in advance!

JPears

Yep, just make sure it a redacted version ie your personal details removed.

benhamnett

Thanks JPears - will post now. I'm just summing up their main points, apologies it's a long one:

LONG POST ALERT!

As mentioned - I'm currently in European small claims court action with Ryanair, about a cancelled flight last year(!!) from Barcelona back to East Mids and looking for a bit of advice, regarding their reply.

First, a bit of background: The gf and I went to Barca, Flight home was on a Sunday eve (20th March); a French ATC strike had been announced (found this out after getting home), but we had no notification of it until a text 40 mins before our departure time. We then spent 9 hours waiting to speak to the Ryanair desk, to get told the next available flight home was Girona to Manchester, on the Thursday. I verbally accepted this, and we got sent to a hotel for the night (around 4:30am). I then managed to book an alternate flight home on the Tuesday (22nd), with a different airline. After several letters (via Resolver!) between me and Ryanair, they advised they'd refund my flight home (£100ish), and did (I didn't accept this, or advise I was settling for this - I also told Ryanair I'd be escalating with the Spanish Civil Aviation Authority). The Spanish CAA took about 3 months to get back to me, but ruled in my favour, advising Ryanair should compensate me for expenses, and the new flights home. Ryanair then said that as I’d accepted their refund, their responsibility ended, so here we are. I've chanced my arm a bit, and claimed for the expenses the SCAA said, plus loss of earnings for 2 days, and also the €250pp EU261/2004, arguing that as it was announced previously Ryanair had ample time to advise, re-arrange or cancel the flight.

Anyway, Ryanair's reply has a few points which I'll try to sum up:

1) Extraordinary circumstances - Air Traffic Control Strike
They've attached the NOTAM filed with the Irish Aviation Authority which advises the strike would last from 5am Sunday to 5am Tuesday (flight was scheduled for ~7pm Sunday) (also no mention of when this was filed - my argument is that as they knew about this prior to the flight, we should have been informed and provided alternate options - not a text 40 mins prior to takeoff!), to advise the ATC strike was taking place during the scheduled flight time, then gone on to explain the impacts of the ATC strike.

2) Extraordinary Circumstances & "All reasonable measures"
Listing the Montreal Convention, they note that obligations on operating carriers should be limited/excluded where events have been cause by extraordinary circumstances. They then quote Peskova & Peska v Travel Service A.S. which considers whether bird strikes are extraordinary circumstances (that case rules yes, and out of control of the carrier). They then say that as the strike is outside their control, it's an extraordinary circumstance. Huzar v Jet2.com (2014) is also listed to support this.
As they're only required to take "all reasonable measures" and not "intolerable sacrifices" they're saying they did everything possible - citing their fleet of >360 aircraft flying that day, saying re-routing wasn't an option, as airspace was closed. Re-routing over the ocean was an intolerable sacrifice as aircraft are required to meet an minimum navigation performance spec (MNPS) to do this - only 10% of their craft have this, due to cost.
Delay was apparently not an option, as "Given that the ATC Strike continued to severely restrict access to the Airspace, the Defendant could not delay the Flight with any realistic expectation that those restrictions would be lifted on the same day." - this seems very flimsy to me?


3) Reaccommodation and reimbursement
"The Defendant contact the Claimant to inform him of the cancellation of the Flight on the Departure Date" (40 mins...!)
"The claimant later elected to receive a refund instead of accepting the re-accommodation" - (this was just paid into my bank account and I've got continued correspondence saying I was going to take the matter further with the Spanish CAA)
"On the issue of a refund the Defendant satisfied its obligations under Article 8 of the Regulation"(looking at the legislation, 8.1a says flight costs should be refunded “for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan”, assume that’s fine to argue that point with?)


4) Expenses
In my claim, I requested expenses for transport, accommodation & meals, plus the cost of the alternate flights home, and loss of earnings. The Spanish CAA ruled in my favour on the expenses & flights (loss of earnings was perhaps a long shot!), but Ryanair advise “Article 9 does not provide for the reimbursement of replacement flights purchased by passengers, nor a loss of earnings”. Assume I can use the Spanish CAA letters to argue this point?


5) Loss of income
In this point they’ve actually made a mistake, saying I was in France, not Spain – would this be something I can use, or is being pedantic frowned upon?
They also mention the distance between airports and say my max compensation is €250 – as there was me and the mrs, I’ve claimed for both passengers – should I just set them straight?

Final point I’m confused on : “Further, or in the alternative, the Claimant is put to proof as to the amount claimed as a result of his loss of work”. I sent in my contract which shows the daily rate I get paid – are they asking for further proof?


6) Interest claimed
They’re citing Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 to put it in the courts hands for recovery of debt or damages, but then also Dawson v Thomson Airways Limited (2014) as the regulation being “claims for recovery of compensation due under an enactment”. As it’s the latter and not a debt/damage they’re saying the court has no power to award interest?


7) Defendant’s costs
Finally they’re inviting the court to order me to pay their £300 costs “pursuant to CPR 27.14 ( 2 ) ( g ). In the alternative, the Defendant invites the Court to exercise its discrection under CPR 44.2 and award the Defendant its costs in this matter to reflect the Court’s disapproval of the Claimant’s conduct”. I’ve looked these up and they’re just citing the rules that say it’s up to the court, from the looks of it.

Is there anything to say on these last 2, or is it just best to leave it for the court to decide?


Apologies for War & Peace, but tried to sum up as best I could without missing out points (happy to into any further detail on any). Any help would be appreciated here, I’m not realistically expecting to get everything but the SCAA have already ruled in my favour re: expenses, and I’ve tried to claim the loss of earnings due to Ryanair’s shambolic management of the situation. The €250pp EU261 compensation is likely my weakest point as the strike was extraordinary circumstances, but my argument is that due to lack of communication by Ryanair, I’m due something…!

themass

Join the queue and good luck. i lost £212 on a flight they told me to take then re scheduled the original,they kept my luggage so i had no option.