Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Tui/Thomson ONLY

Mark2spark

missie66 wrote: »

Hi Just to update everyone.
but....... after speaking with Thomson`s legal team, they determined they had no option but to delay our flight, it was not a "operational decision" but was "exceptional circumstances"........So Yes he admitted I was correct and he was wrong, but......they are still declining my claim for compensation.
So my question is "what is my next move"?
The 14 days from my NBA letter expire on 28.01.2015. Should I wait until the end of the week and see if they give in, should I start proceedings in a small claims court, or should I use a No Win No Fee claims handler?
I feel very strongly that I have a case, and think I can do this in a small claims court, what do other forum members think?

I do still feel like jumping up and down on the floor and shouting very loudly at newbie's "They WON'T give in!!!"
As you might gather Missie, they will just give you the run around until the cows come home. There's no penalty or forfeiture for them to do so, so they will, and hope you'll just go away.
So, whatever you do, do SOMETHING, as the date for a court hearing is a good few months and waiting around just puts the day in court off... which is inevitable if they've dug their heels in.

welshmike_2

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I'm a newbie to this forum.
Vauban, many thanks for producing your excellent and comprehensive Guide to Claiming Flight Delay Compensation.
The [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]very disruptive [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]delay of two days that my wife and I suffere[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]d, including two abortive early morning jouneys to the airport, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]was over the New year 2006/200[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]7[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]We did not get home for New Year celebrations[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] and the airline was Thomson [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]returning from Denver Colorado[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So being more than six years ago I understand that I cannot take legal action against Thomson. However at http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-delays by Martin and Helen Updated 23 Jan 2015 is stated "You can apply for compensation for any past delays, stretching back as far as February 2005."[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I note on this website that obtaining compensation from Thomson is rare and very difficult (see below). [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Does anyone know what other action I may take to obtain compensation?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mike


[/FONT]

Andivaguff

We were delayed for 24 hours coming back from the Maldives in May 2009. All we had was the stamps on our passport showing us exiting and re entering the same day and then exiting the following day. We had NO other proof of our holiday. No flight numbers, no booking details.......absolutely nothing.

Thomson turned us down for compensation 18 months ago saying our claim was too old and after the ruling last year I wrote again asking them to review their decision. Today I got a cheque for £932. !!!!

JPears

welshmike wrote: »

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I'm a newbie to this forum.
Vauban, many thanks for producing your excellent and comprehensive Guide to Claiming Flight Delay Compensation.
The [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]very disruptive [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]delay of two days that my wife and I suffere[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]d, including two abortive early morning jouneys to the airport, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]was over the New year 2006/200[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]7[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]We did not get home for New Year celebrations[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] and the airline was Thomson [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]returning from Denver Colorado[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So being more than six years ago I understand that I cannot take legal action against Thomson. However at http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-delays by Martin and Helen Updated 23 Jan 2015 is stated "You can apply for compensation for any past delays, stretching back as far as February 2005."[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I note on this website that obtaining compensation from Thomson is rare and very difficult (see below). [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Does anyone know what other action I may take to obtain compensation?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mike


[/FONT]

None. Other thancontact the company. Likely they will just ignore you as you have no legal recourse. Sorry. Whilst Martin's thread is technical correct, it is pointless, 6 years is the max, 5 in Scotland.

maisbitt

Has anyone successfully rebuffed TUI claims of “extraordinary circumstances” for knock-on delays following a medical emergency?

My flight from Newcastle to Cancun was late departing due to Thomson admitting “knock on effect to our fleet following a medical emergency”. I’m not entirely sure when the medical emergency occurred, but it was at least 2 flights before ours on the same aircraft.

The plane flew to Florida with a long delay, then flew back from Florida with a 5.5 hour delay, then was flying out to Cancun (our flight). I’m presuming the medical emergency happened on the outbound Florida flight or certainly before it, and TUI made no attempt to source another aircraft. When we were checking in for our flight to Cancun, the plane hadn’t even left Florida to come back to Newcastle.

Am I right to assume that for the flight which had the medical emergency was obviously an “extraordinary circumstance”, but for following flights where the operator has made no attempt to replace the aircraft for following flights that it is not? We’ve been in contact before, but thought it was worth one last try. We didn’t want to go to the small claims court last year as I had no spare holiday allocation to be at a hearing.

A copy of my letter I intend to post – please advise of any errors or recommendations for alteration

Tuesday 27 January 2015

After Travel Customer Support,
Thomson Holidays,
Wigmore House,
Wigmore Lane,
Luton,
LU2 9TN

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re: Compensation claim for delayed flight
Booking reference: First Choice Booking Ref: 083385/001
Thomson Flight Ref: TOM392

I am writing regarding a delay to the flight TOM392, scheduled on 30 September 2011 from Newcastle Airport (NCL) to Cancun Airport (CUN) via Manchester Airport (MAN) with the scheduled departure time of 0900.

Upon arrival at Newcastle airport, we were able to check in as normal. At that point it would have been clear to TUI staff that a considerable delay was inevitable as the aircraft being used for our flight had not yet left Florida in the USA when checking in for our Cancun flight had commenced. No provision had been made to replace the aircraft servicing our flight so that it may leave on time. Following the eventual arrival of the aircraft from Florida, our outbound flight commenced at 1415, 5 hours and fifteen minutes late and was more than five hours late upon arrival in Cancun.


TUI have previously responded to a request for compensation (Ref: S11/2635725/LB), but cited cause as “a medical emergency” within the Thomson fleet that caused knock-on effect to their flight schedule, which was claimed as “extraordinary circumstances”.

Following judicial outcomes of Wallentin in 2008 and upheld by the Huzar judgement in June 2014 the Law Lords defined “all reasonable measures” that an airline must take to prevent delay, even from extraordinary circumstances, as everything short of “intolerable sacrifice”. By those definitions, the medical emergency cited as a cause for “knock-on” delays may in itself be defined an “extraordinary circumstance” for the original flight upon which it occurred, but not for further flights using the same aircraft.

Thomson Airways were aware of the medical emergency more than twenty-four hours before flight TOM392 was due to depart Newcastle Airport and took no preventive action to avoid our delay, such as sourcing another aircraft for our flight. In fact, the medical emergency was from a flight that was at least two scheduled flights before our own on the same aircraft. The plane had been delayed going out to Florida from Newcastle and delayed again for its return before still being delayed for our flight from Newcastle to Cancun. For TUI to not make alternative provisions for flights beyond the one that actually had the medical emergency made delays to our flight inevitable. The failure of Thomson to source an alternative plane for flight TOM392 was an operational decision, entirely within their control and so not an excusable “extraordinary circumstance”.

To avoid TUI claiming that I have 2 years (as per Montreal convention) to stake my claim for flight delay compensation, I refer to the Dawson Judgement – the Law Lords ruled in June 2014 that the UK Courts were bound by the More ruling that regulation 261/2004 existed outside the Montreal Convention and therefore six years, not two was the limitation period of claim under English law.

The judgment of the Court of Justice of the European Union in TUI and others v CAA confirmed the applicability of compensation for delay as set out in the Sturgeon case. As such, I am seeking compensation under EC Regulation 261/2004 for this delayed flight.

The passengers in the party were X and Y. The booking was made with Thomson Holidays.

My scheduled flight length was 7806km, therefore I am seeking €600 per delayed passenger in my party. The total is €1200 for all passengers.

I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days of its arrival at your premises via recorded delivery and expect payment for compensation due as I have demonstrated that the airline’s definition of extraordinary circumstances cited for this case differs from that defined in recent judgements.

If I do not receive a satisfactory response and compensation due, I will promptly file a claim through the small claims court no later than the end of February 2015 and will also be seeking interest on the sum due at a rate of 8% pa, from the date of the incident. This will be my last correspondence to TUI on the matter to request that you fulfil your obligations under regulation 261/2004, so consider it my formal notice before action (NBA).





Kind Regards,

Vauban

Maisbitt: looks generally good - some v quick points from me:

1) There is no precedent case law specifically about medical emergencies and how much of a knock on delay might be allowed. And if anyone won a similar claim in the County Court it would have little bearing on your own claim - each incident is considered separately.

2) But the Wallentin judgement sets a clear test for airlines to minimise the disruption caused to passengers for an extraordinary circumstance. And it's clear that if the incident happened two flights previously then this is an operational failure (due to inadequate contingency resource/planning) rather than something genuinely out of the airline's control. Have a read of my guide for more detail.

3) Stop writing to Thomson Holidays! You really need to get this right: you are claiming from Thomson Airways Limited and no one else (not TUI either). Someone's claim recently was undone partly because they didn't get this right.

Good luck!

maisbitt

Vauban wrote: »

Maisbitt: looks generally good - some v quick points from me:

1) There is no precedent case law specifically about medical emergencies and how much of a knock on delay might be allowed. And if anyone won a similar claim in the County Court it would have little bearing on your own claim - each incident is considered separately.

2) But the Wallentin judgement sets a clear test for airlines to minimise the disruption caused to passengers for an extraordinary circumstance. And it's clear that if the incident happened two flights previously then this is an operational failure (due to inadequate contingency resource/planning) rather than something genuinely out of the airline's control. Have a read of my guide for more detail.

3) Stop writing to Thomson Holidays! You really need to get this right: you are claiming from Thomson Airways Limited and no one else (not TUI either). Someone's claim recently was undone partly because they didn't get this right.

Good luck!

Thanks for the comments Vauban, I will alter the address to Thomson Airways. After reading your comprehensive guide and noting the lack of a major medical emergency ruling, I decided to treat it purely as an "extraordinary circumstance" in my argument, and the fact that the medical emergency happened at least 2 flights before mine demonstrates a lack of will to source an alternative aircraft and prevent a petfectly avoidable delay.

If it weren't for the success stories of Thomson sending cheques recently with little or no further resistance I would be going straight to court.

I have another case with a similar letter. First Choice flight this time (still to be referred to officially as Thomson Airways in legal correspondence?). Same flight (Newcastle to Cancun via fuelling in Manchester), plane took off from Newcastle with a known brake issue. Fix in Manchester resulted in a 5.5 hour delay. They sent a replacement plane (apparently, we have TUI staff's word on that) but it had expired service and so was unsuitable, so we were back on the original plane. Citing Wallentin/Huzar in that the fault wasn't extraordinary, as it was inherent to the operation of the airline and all reasonable measures were not taken (they could have had a replacement aircraft waiting for us in Manchester).

Thanks for all your expertise and advice on this huge thread.

Roywad

Thanks for all the invaluable help everyone has given me.
You may recall that my original claim (sent to Thomsons in March 2013 for a delayed flight dated 24 Jan 2011) was for £1290 and I had to appear at a hearing with Thomsons solicitor in October 2013 where the case was stayed. After the Supreme Court decisions in 2014 I wrote to Thomsons with an updated claim asking for settlement a couple of weeks in advance. The amount at this time was approaching £1600 and they sent me a cheque for £1154 in full and final settlement based on the full price fare!!. My interest figure was based on 8% from the outset, theirs on 4% but no actual figures to show how they had worked their figures out. They weren't even paying any of my court fees etc. The judge had given them a specific date to say why their defence shouldn't be struck out and before that date I wrote back and told them I would accept £1400 but they didn't write back to me and they didn't inform the court regarding their defence.
Consequently I wrote back to the court asking for judgement with a revised claim for £1630.64 which included £20 for postages.
Today I have received a letter from the court which states:-

1. There be Judgement for the Claimant in the inclusive sum of £1390.64.
2. The Defendant do pay the Claimants fixed costs in the sum of£220

I am assuming I can now contact Thomsons and claim a total of £1610.64 which I will do forthwith but once again would like to thank you everyone for their help and advice.

Vauban

Yes - well done. What a pain that they're being so difficult! Does the Court give Thomson's a deadline to pay up? If so, make this clear to the airline. (They will no doubt claim they need 28 days - which is nonsense!)

Roywad

No, the Court doesn't give a date but on the N225 there were 3 options and I chose 'Immediately' as opposed to a specific date or by instalments!