Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Thomas Cook ONLY

edtheduck_2

Mark2spark wrote: »

I've made some additions in red if you like?
I see you're not waiving the claim to interest though. IMO you should.
If you decide to, then add that into the letter, after the giving them a chance to avoid further fees bit
I offer you, in full and final settlement, the opportunity to not pay the claimed interest, by pursuing a fruitless case to a final hearing.

I'm assuming that your case is defended by TC on the basis of tech issues btw ?

Thank you Mark.
I haven't had their defence through the courts as yet, I'm just going by what they've said all along in their communications - ECs, and also as it said in the letter they gave us the next day back in 2012, when our flight eventually took off.
Surely I don't need to wait to get their actual defence through, do I, it may not come which would be good too, but not sure if you're inferring I've received their defence, cos I haven't had anything official via the courts system ?
I've made our suggested changes btw, removed interest and marked it open offer. thank you.

flymeaway

Just wondering, given the Huzar -v- Jet2 win for Mr Huzar, if now is the time to go back and get my case "unstayed" - so I wrote to TC to advise them that was my plan and look at the response:

"Whilst it is within your discretion to ‘reopen’ the case, we can notify you that the Huzar Judgment will be appealed at the Supreme Court and we will therefore be requesting a further stay on the matter."

I thought that they had been refused permission to appeal? Anyone of you very clever people on here know how best to deal with this?

111KAB

flymeaway wrote: »

I thought that they had been refused permission to appeal? Anyone of you very clever people on here know how best to deal with this?

Yes tell them to have sex and travel but read the Huzar thread first.

Jadeybaby21

Jadeybaby21 wrote: »

***UPDATE***

Well it seems Thomas cook really do want to defend all the way. I really was hoping they would give in by now but doesn't seem so. I received a copy of their submitted defence in the post this morning.

I guess I just have to wait for a court date now? it states on the defence 'in the Northampton county court' so i am assuming I will have to attend that court?!

Here is their defence. Ive never done anything like this before so I am actually a little bit scared and no idea what to expect.... should I stick it out or back out? opinions welcome!!

1 The defendant is incorrectly named as Thomas cook. the correct defendant is thomas cook airlines limited, registered company number 02012379.

2. The defendant is an airline, specialising in the provision of international flights to the public.

3. The defendant is not in receipt of detailed particulars of claim as alleged within the claim form. The defendant may seek the permission of the court to amend the defence in the event that further particulars are served by the claimant.

4. It is admitted that the claimant booked on flight TCX1246 from Tenerife to London Gatwick on 27th sept 2013.

5. It is admitted that EC regulations 261/2004 applies to the claimants flights. This provides that compensation is payable in the event of cancelled flights and instances of denied boarding. it also provides that airlines are to provide welfare to passengers in the event of cancellation \, denied boarding or delayed flights. it is denied that the regulation expressly provides that compensation is payable in the event of a delayed flight.

6. The defendant avers that the claimants compensation claim is based upon the decision of the European court of justice in the joined cases of sturgeon v condor flugdienst GmbH and Bock v air France cases C-402/07 and C-432/07 respectively, where it was determined that despite the regulation not expressly stating that compensation is applicable in the event of delay, the regulation is to be interrupted in such a way.

7. It is the defendants case that the delay was reactionary when aircraft registration G-FCLD was grounded in Manchester airport with a flap/slat fault.

8. Engineers were dispatched in order to investigate this and consulted with the boeing engineers in order to trouble shoot the cause.

9.The defendant followed its contingency plan when the engineers confirmed that it would be a lengthly period of time before the could rectify the fault, and declare the aircraft serviceable.

10. The defendant avers that they secured another aircraft from its fleet, and aircraft registration G-FCLA was prepared to service the claimants route.

11. An inspection of the technical log for the origional aircraft confirms that there was no previous history of such fault.

12. The defendant avers that it took all reasonable measures by providing refreshment vouchers to the claimant and other passengers.

13. It is averred that the provisions of the regulation are subject to derogation's to liability as contained in recitals 14 and 15 to the preamble of the regulation.

14. Should liability attach, which is denied, it is averred that the applicable amount per passenger is 400 euros. it is averred that the claimants claim be limited to the sterling equivalent of 400 euros calculated using the historic exchange rate on the day of the effect flight which was 1.19 euros to the one pound making the amount claimed £336.13.

15. The claimant is not entitled to any interest on the compensation that the court deems appropriate to award.

Thanks for all your advice/opinions in advance!

****UPDATE****

Well I was offered mediation which I agreed to, but it seems thomascook have not, so I am now awaiting a court date!

Still really nervous about all of this as I've never done anything like this before but with all the help and support of the kind people on here I'm hoping it will be ok! I'm really surprised they want to do this seeing as the claim is for only 1200.... I live right down south at the bottom of England so would have thought it would be a right pain sending their team down here... Or is that a silly view of looking at it?!! Haha... Oh well, I shall await the next process which I am assuming will be a court date letter advising me to prepare a court bundle

Does anyone think it would be worth writing to thomascook regarding a out of court settlement or to just leave it as it is?

batman44

Jadeybaby21 wrote: »

****UPDATE****

Well I was offered mediation which I agreed to, but it seems thomascook have not, so I am now awaiting a court date!

Still really nervous about all of this as I've never done anything like this before but with all the help and support of the kind people on here I'm hoping it will be ok! I'm really surprised they want to do this seeing as the claim is for only 1200.... I live right down south at the bottom of England so would have thought it would be a right pain sending their team down here... Or is that a silly view of looking at it?!! Haha... Oh well, I shall await the next process which I am assuming will be a court date letter advising me to prepare a court bundle

Does anyone think it would be worth writing to thomascook regarding a out of court settlement or to just leave it as it is?

First - don't worry it looks scary and that is the intention here, to put you off.

You have a valid claim, all you need to do now is build your arguement, look on this thread to see what other members have put down, you will find al sorts of info to help.

Take a look at the Huzar Appeal thread, this is the latest legal case that says tech faults are not ec's. TC will fight you all the way till the last minute but don't give up. I am sure some one on here with some time can go through the TC defence a rip it appart for you.

Don't worry about the Northhampton Court bit, that is where all the claims go first and the you will get a directions questionaire asking you what court you want this to be in. You will then need to pay £40, you will get this back as court costs if you win.
It is not worth writing to Tc now as they will not budge and hope you give up, don't.

I would suggest you read the threads on here on page 1 and our helpfull honoured member Vauban, he is a wealth of information and he has been all the way through the process.

We have all started at the beginning and learned along the way, by the end of it you will get your compo and you may even become a legal eagle as you will learn a lot about the law surrounding flight delays.

You may need to change the name of the defendant to Thomas Cook Airlines, you will find a template for that and instruction on this thread. I have done it and many others, there will be a cost and as it is your mistake it will not be revcoverable in court as far as i am aware.

All the rest in the initial defence from Tc is hogwash, legalise to put you off. I would suggest you read the court doc case of-

Wallentin, Sturgeon, Huzar appeal. you will find links on the huzar thread for that, and at the start of this for the others.

good luck

jonny1983_2

Hi all - Please can anyone on here provide me with some advice?

Me, my wife and my wife's parents travelled LCA-MAN with TCX airlines back in Oct 2012. The flight was delayed 4+ hrs. I put in a claim and after a number of emails was informed to contact the complaints team at TC. The advisor I spoke to accepted the complaint and offered £100 (£50 each) compensation for me and my wife. At the time the advisor informed me that would be their final offer and on that basis I accepted.

I then informed my wife's mother (travelling under a separate booking) who subsequently made a claim and received the full amount of compensation - I forget the full amount, something like £350+ per passenger.

Anyway my question is do you think I should go back to TC and try to claim the full amount of compo considering I only accepted their offer on what the advisor told me at the time? Or do you think I wouldn't stand a chance after accepting their first offer?

Vauban

jonny1983 wrote: »

Anyway my question is do you think I should go back to TC and try to claim the full amount of compo considering I only accepted their offer on what the advisor told me at the time? Or do you think I wouldn't stand a chance after accepting their first offer?

Two points: first you may not have accepted the offer as full and final settlement, but as a goodwill gesture (did you sign anything?); second, you may not have been informed of your entitlements under Regulation 261/04 - did they tell you to what you were potentially entitled? (Sounds not)

On this basis, I would resume the claim.

jonny1983_2

Vauban wrote: »

Two points: first you may not have accepted the offer as full and final settlement, but as a goodwill gesture (did you sign anything?); second, you may not have been informed of your entitlements under Regulation 261/04 - did they tell you to what you were potentially entitled? (Sounds not)

On this basis, I would resume the claim.

Thanks for your quick response Vauban

TC didn't inform me what I was entitled to however, I had a vague idea. At the time I was informed that the delay was due to mechanical issues and to be honest, I didn't think I would get any form of compensation so took the payment.

I never signed anything but did get a final email response which is below

Do you think I should resume on this basis?

Dear Johnathan

Thank you for taking the time to speak to me about your experience recently.

I am pleased to inform you that our agreed payment of £100.00 has been made directly into your account. This has been made via the BACS payment system and as such can take up to 10 working days to clear. This is offered in full and final settlement of the matter as agreed.

I would once again say how sorry I am that you felt it necessary to get in touch with us, but I hope we have shown that we do value your comments and that you will travel with us again soon.

Kind regards

Jodie GXXXXXXXX

Customer Services

David_e

jonny1983 wrote: »

TC didn't inform me what I was entitled to however, I had a vague idea. At the time I was informed that the delay was due to mechanical issues and to be honest, I didn't think I would get any form of compensation so took the payment.

I never signed anything but did get a final email response which is below

Article 14 Para 2 of the Regulation says:

"An operating air carrier denying boarding or cancelling a flight shall provide each passenger affected with a written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance in line with this Regulation. It shall also provide each passenger affected by a delay of at least two hours with an equivalent notice. The contact details of the national designated body referred to in Article 16 shall also be given to the passenger in written form."

Article 15 Para 2 of the Regulation says:

"If … the passenger is not correctly informed of his rights and for that reason has accepted compensation which is inferior to that provided for in this Regulation, the passenger shall still be entitled to take the necessary proceedings before the competent courts or bodies in order to obtain additional compensation."

Presumably by implication Article 15 Para 2 of the Regulation applies because they offered you less than you were entitled to which, had you been correctly informed, you would not have accepted.

Vauban

jonny1983 wrote: »

Thanks for your quick response Vauban

TC didn't inform me what I was entitled to however, I had a vague idea. At the time I was informed that the delay was due to mechanical issues and to be honest, I didn't think I would get any form of compensation so took the payment.

I never signed anything but did get a final email response which is below

Do you think I should resume on this basis?

I think the email is unfortunate, as it makes clear that you have accepted the offer in full and final settlement.

HOWEVER ...

Article 15 of Regulation is very clear, particularly the second paragraph:

Article 15

Exclusion of waiver

1. Obligations vis-à-vis passengers pursuant to this Regulation may not be limited or waived, notably by a derogation or restrictive clause in the contract of carriage.

2. If, nevertheless, such a derogation or restrictive clause is applied in respect of a passenger, or if the passenger is not correctly informed of his rights and for that reason has accepted compensation which is inferior to that provided for in this Regulation, the passenger shall still be entitled to take the necessary proceedings before the competent courts or bodies in order to obtain additional compensation.

Provided the airline cannot show you were made aware of your full potential entitlement, then I think this gives you the basis for a resumption of your claim.

EDIT: I see David just beat me to it!!