Just confirmed my family have planned my life for me

Person_one

Let's not forget that not all parents are good parents, and we have no idea how the op's parents have treated her thus far.

I don't agree at all that children have a responsibility to care for their parents in return for being cared for when they were young. Parents create children out of nothing, they don't ask to be born.

I think if a parent does their job well enough then ther children will naturally want to make sure they don't suffer in old age, if the relationship is such that they don't really care, well whose fault is that?

I have three living grandparents, two of them I would walk to the ends of the earth for, I already provide some care and assistance and expect to do more in the future. The third, well, I probably won't even go to her funeral, I certainly wouldn't make any sacrifices for her.

Sometimes you really do reap what you sow.

cbrown372

margaretclare wrote: »

Well, yes, but the whole point of this discussion is that the OP's mum is not very independent, has refused any of the innovations which may help her and improve her quality of life, and is relying on her daughter to fill in those gaps.

Computers are just one example but they are important. It is now possible to get repeat prescriptions, to shop, to do banking, to contact friends and relatives around the world, to stay in touch, so many things. Yes, I've no doubt that people prefer to get the bus into town, go to the bank or the PO, stand and wait in line, go and pay their bills over the counter in cash and maybe they see this as staying fit and active or think it gives them more control over their actions. However, how do they do all this if, as you are so keen to emphasise, they can't get out of the house? They expect someone to do it for them, in this case, the OP.

There are two parents in this family, perhaps its because the OP feels the Mother favoured her son but is the reason the Father is never mentioned because she is a Daddy's girl and equally doesn't think any of this is his fault?

Actually I don't think they are much of a "family" at all, it appears they are all rowing their own boats.

Nicki

Person_one wrote: »

Let's not forget that not all parents are good parents, and we have no idea how the op's parents have treated her thus far.

I don't agree at all that children have a responsibility to care for their parents in return for being cared for when they were young. Parents create children out of nothing, they don't ask to be born.

I think if a parent does their job well enough then ther children will naturally want to make sure they don't suffer in old age, if the relationship is such that they don't really care, well whose fault is that?

I have three living grandparents, two of them I would walk to the ends of the earth for, I already provide some care and assistance and expect to do more in the future. The third, well, I probably won't even go to her funeral, I certainly wouldn't make any sacrifices for her.

Sometimes you really do reap what you sow.

Whilst I agree to a point, given how forthright OP has been about her brother's shortcomings, do you really think she would have failed to mention it if her parents had behaved towards her in a way which meant they deserved to be cut off in their old age?

This all seems to stem from OP feeling that she was being expected to do more than her brother to support the parents, and has escalated to her not wanting to do anything. It doesn't seem to have stemmed from anything the parents themselves have done other than grow older.

conradmum

Nicki wrote: »

Whilst I agree to a point, given how forthright OP has been about her brother's shortcomings, do you really think she would have failed to mention it if her parents had behaved towards her in a way which meant they deserved to be cut off in their old age?

This all seems to stem from OP feeling that she was being expected to do more than her brother to support the parents, and has escalated to her not wanting to do anything. It doesn't seem to have stemmed from anything the parents themselves have done other than grow older.

From memory I think the OP said that her mother has refused to learn how to be independent, clearly expecting someone else to look after her when the father dies (as usually happens). It seems to me to be a generational thing. The mother expects to be cared for by someone because she's a woman, while the OP expects to be able to lead her own life.

I think the OP would be more willing to lend a hand if she didn't feel it was all going to fall on her shoulders without her mother even being willing to help herself. I have to say in similar circumstances I'd run a mile too. She has a right to a life now that she's retiring, not spending her days looking after someone who's deliberately making themselves dependent.

ETA: In response to an earlier point you made, the OP also said that she'd told her parents her plans several times, and she hasn't kept quiet about it, now enjoying the after-effects of dropping this bomb on everyone. She said her parents chose to disbelieve and ignore her.

Isn't is double standards to say it isn't the brother's fault for choosing to move away, but apparently it is the OP's?

margaretclare

You say "However, how do they do all this if, as you are so keen to emphasise, they can't get out of the house? They expect someone to do it for them, in this case, the OP" Well how will you do it if your eyesight fails and you can't do it all online?

Would you believe, there is technology which will cope even with this eventuality.

Years ago I used to go to a physiotherapist who was blind but managed to practise his profession and he had a voice -operated computer system to help him. Things have moved on since then.

Nicki

conradmum wrote: »

From memory I think the OP said that her mother has refused to learn how to be independent, clearly expecting someone else to look after her when the father dies (as usually happens). It seems to me to be a generational thing. The mother expects to be cared for by someone because she's a woman, while the OP expects to be able to lead her own life.

I think the OP would be more willing to lend a hand if she didn't feel it was all going to fall on her shoulders without her mother even being willing to help herself. I have to say in similar circumstances I'd run a mile too. She has a right to a life now that she's retiring, not spending her days looking after someone who's deliberately making themselves dependent.

ETA: In response to an earlier point you made, the OP also said that she'd told her parents her plans several times, and she hasn't kept quiet about it, now enjoying the after-effects of dropping this bomb on everyone. She said her parents chose to disbelieve and ignore her.

Isn't is double standards to say it isn't the brother's fault for choosing to move away, but apparently it is the OP's?

If OP is 55-65, her mother is likely to be 75-90 though. Which is quite an age to be expecting her to learn self help skills. Even if OP broached the subject quite some time ago, mother was likely to have been 65+ at the time. I wouldn't fancy learning to drive at that age, when a lot of people are starting to think about driving less/avoiding busier roads.

My own parents are mid 80's and I noticed with them that they started to need a bit of help with bills and paperwork from their early 70's (not someone to take over the whole thing, but help to understand the full ramifications and to fill out official forms). That was also the age that they started to make some poor financial decisions. My inlaws are in their late 60's early 70's and I can just see the beginnings of this with them too.

For a woman who has never had to make financial decisions or drive or do basic DIY (as OP's mother is), I do think it is perhaps an unreasonable expectation to expect her to acquire these skills post retirement age (less so to keep using the skills if they already have them).

I also think as I have said that it is unreasonable to expect OP to do everything for the parents, but IMPO it is not unreasonable to expect her to help them and support them to a degree, as this is what well adjusted families do. If you read my post again, I did not say anywhere that OP should not move too, or that she should do all the work involved in supporting the parents, just that I thought a kinder and more mature way of dealing with this issue was for the whole family to discuss the situation and divide the task up between themselves and any outside agencies they need to buy in.

conradmum

Nicki wrote: »

If OP is 55-65, her mother is likely to be 75-90 though. Which is quite an age to be expecting her to learn self help skills. Even if OP broached the subject quite some time ago, mother was likely to have been 65+ at the time. I wouldn't fancy learning to drive at that age, when a lot of people are starting to think about driving less/avoiding busier roads.

My own parents are mid 80's and I noticed with them that they started to need a bit of help with bills and paperwork from their early 70's (not someone to take over the whole thing, but help to understand the full ramifications and to fill out official forms). That was also the age that they started to make some poor financial decisions. My inlaws are in their late 60's early 70's and I can just see the beginnings of this with them too.

For a woman who has never had to make financial decisions or drive or do basic DIY (as OP's mother is), I do think it is perhaps an unreasonable expectation to expect her to acquire these skills post retirement age (less so to keep using the skills if they already have them).

I also think as I have said that it is unreasonable to expect OP to do everything for the parents, but IMPO it is not unreasonable to expect her to help them and support them to a degree, as this is what well adjusted families do. If you read my post again, I did not say anywhere that OP should not move too, or that she should do all the work involved in supporting the parents, just that I thought a kinder and more mature way of dealing with this issue was for the whole family to discuss the situation and divide the task up between themselves and any outside agencies they need to buy in.

Well, look at what she said in her first post:


Obviously, I want to know my mother is safely "sorted out" and able to manage okay and I have tried over the years to try and persuade her to learn to be more "independent" (learn to drive/get on the Internet/move to "easier" accommodation/change the bills to direct debit/etc) and got nowhere. It feels like she has "buried her head in the sand" and decided that if she doesnt arrange to be "independent" then she won't ever have to be.


It seems to me she has already tried quite a lot of things for several years, and some of them easily achievable, such as moving bills to direct debit. As the saying goes, you can't help those who won't help themselves. I don't get the impression that she intends to wash her hands of all potential problems, just that she's making it clear she isn't prepared to play the role the rest of her family have written for her.

Nicki

conradmum wrote: »

It seems to me she has already tried quite a lot of things for several years, and some of them easily achievable, such as moving bills to direct debit. As the saying goes, you can't help those who won't help themselves. I don't get the impression that she intends to wash her hands of all potential problems, just that she's making it clear she isn't prepared to play the role the rest of her family have written for her.

But to put things in perspective:

OP is 60 (according to another thread she started recently), so we can assume I think that her parents are definitely over 75, but more likely well into their 80's?

According to Age Concern 70% of people currently over 65 have never used the internet. So it is not all that surprising perhaps that OP's parents who are well over 65 have felt overwhelmed by that prospect.

The average age to pass your driving test is around 23 years old. I haven't been able to find statistics about people passing their test for the first time at an older age, but even if OP's parents had done as she suggested and got a driving license late in life, at their age they would be having to reapply for their license every 3 years, and it isn't unreasonable to suspect that they would be unable to continue driving for very much longer.

Direct debits are a great idea to make paying bills easy. However, if you have a low income (as OP says her parents do) you need to keep a close idea on your cashflow to make sure you don't go overdrawn. OP's parents don't use internet banking (obviously) and if mum doesn't drive may not be able to get into bank regularly to keep an eye on her balance. So the old fashioned way of tallying her cheque book and paying her bills on the date she chooses each month in an amount she knows she can afford might be more sensible than having money taken automatically on a set date.

Moving to easier accommodation may happen now that OP is moving. Perhaps her parents stayed in their home because it was close to OP and therefore made it easy for them to see her and vice versa? A sheltered housing unit several miles away if they had no transport would be isolating.

Perhaps OP's move will be the catalyst needed for her parents to make some changes, but I do think OP needs to be realistic about what changes are possible at their age, and the whole family has to plan based on what is possible. And I also think it is not fair to say the parents have "asked for this" if the truth is they were in fact for whatever reason not confident or capable of adopting some of the strategies OP thinks they should have done earlier.

The bottom line is, whatever should or shouldn't have been done in the past, the starting point now is that OP and her brother are going to be living some distance from the parents, there are a range of things they currently need help with and over the next 10 years or so that range of things is likely to get greater. And therefore someone needs to plan to have those needs met (ideally the whole family together) without the bitterness and posturing.

And if OP isn't going to do this because she is annoyed with her brother for taking her for granted, then she needs to be sure in her own mind that she GENUINELY does not care if one or both of her parents is found dead in an armchair from hypothermia because they haven't dared to put the heating on after mismanaging their bills, or is in hospital long term following a broken hip, or is found wandering the streets with dementia. Because if she DOES care even a little bit, it is in her interests to get this sorted with a plan otherwise she is going to be up and down the motorway from her new home several times a week doing hospital visits and dealing with police and social services in the event that the parents can't cope without some help.

mumps

margaretclare wrote: »

Would you believe, there is technology which will cope even with this eventuality.

Years ago I used to go to a physiotherapist who was blind but managed to practise his profession and he had a voice -operated computer system to help him. Things have moved on since then.

I was taught computer skills by a blind teacher many, many years ago but if you think someone who isn't interested in using a computer or the internet and who is in their 80s is going to suddenly start doing everything online with a voice activated system I think you are dreaming. My MIL wouldn't have wanted to do on line shopping but if she had to she would have at least wanted to be able to see what she was buying. When my uncle became functionally blind in his last months he certainly wouldn't have coped.

mumps

conradmum wrote: »

Well, look at what she said in her first post:


Obviously, I want to know my mother is safely "sorted out" and able to manage okay and I have tried over the years to try and persuade her to learn to be more "independent" (learn to drive/get on the Internet/move to "easier" accommodation/change the bills to direct debit/etc) and got nowhere. It feels like she has "buried her head in the sand" and decided that if she doesnt arrange to be "independent" then she won't ever have to be.




It seems to me she has already tried quite a lot of things for several years, and some of them easily achievable, such as moving bills to direct debit. As the saying goes, you can't help those who won't help themselves. I don't get the impression that she intends to wash her hands of all potential problems, just that she's making it clear she isn't prepared to play the role the rest of her family have written for her.

It is perfectly possible to be independent without driving, using the internet, paying bills by direct debit or moving to easier accommodation. e.g. use taxis, pay by cheque, have a stairlift fitted (these were strategies my mother and MIL used very successfully.)