Infrared Heating Panels

Richie-from-the-Boro

"""Still, they do look pretty"""

- is always the real start point and true motivation
- and is always, always, always the stubborn end-point in this type of thread many posts later

Addiction to the promises of gold~from~lead, and the ability to fully persuade, and honestly believe the conjured-up facts on the part of the potential s/he purchaser means that all logic and common sense goes out of 'decision making' window along with the £2000+

As I said earlier LisaLJ, its your money, buy them. They will however never per your very first #1 post criteria come close to economically """lessen the cost of heating the place""". Neither Cardew or myself or others are here to upset you, as I read this thread you have had consistently good advice from all posters. The problem, and there is one, is that others just like yourself can read these public forum threads and 'sleep walk' into a very expensive mistake, without individuals here laying open the truths of this type of product in the UK housing market.

So let me reassure you its not you personally. Its intended to make all / any readers of a public forum who might be converted into disciples by the little pins of the """Still, they do look pretty""" doll aware of what they may be voodoo'd into.

LisaLJ

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

"""Still, they do look pretty"""

- is always the real start point and true motivation
- and is always, always, always the stubborn end-point in this type of thread many posts later

As I said earlier LisaLJ, its your money, buy them.

Did you not see the arrow and Joke Alert! next to my comment about them looking pretty? I wasn't going to include that as I thought it was obvious I was making a joke but even when pointing it out it gets missed!

I'm not tempted to buy them, which I swayed on by one of the earlier replies to which I replied what now seems a lifetime ago. A post that happened before I dared to make the mistake of asking someone who had these heaters a simple question.

This thread is over for me and I fear it will be a long time before I dare ask anyone anything else on here.

espresso

LisaLJ wrote: »

Hi,
Are they really a lot cheaper to run than "normal" electric heaters and do you get the same (heat) benefit from them?

.....^^^

---

JOKE ALERT!!!


.....

chris1973

Enter the physical size of your room into a heat calculator like this

http://www.qvsdirect.com/kW-Heating-Calculator-p-50.html

This will give you the approximate KW heat input required in order to heat an average insulated room of the dimensions you have entered.

The figure which it gives will apply, regardless of whether you use a Woodburner, Gas, Electricity, Paraffin, Heating Oil, Peat, Horse Manure, Whale Oil, Snake Oil etc

So if the room requires 4kw worth of heat then you'll need to input 4kw worth of heat into regardless of the heater type and fuel and your budget. It won't change just because Xmas is coming up or you happen to be strapped for cash, enter less energy into it and it will feel cold. No smoke and Mirrors - No Pack drill.

Yes, some forms of heating are less efficient than others so they may need to burn 4.6kw of fuel to produce 4kw worth of usable heat, but the losses on these types of system are explained through any heat exchanger, flue, Chimney, condenser.

Electricity is 100% efficient, so whatever you input will be exactly the same as the output, as there are no flues, chimneys etc for the heat to escape or any energy conversion process introducing losses. However there are no gains involved either, you don't get something for nothing - not in this life.

Finally, if there was some form of heater which could provide heat gain from a lower input, i.e output more usable heat from a reduced consumption then don't you think they would be in daily use in the types of buildings which cost a fortune to heat?, Town Halls, Museums, Factories, Cinema's, Leisure Centres, Exhibition Centres, Hotels etc??, common sense surely? as the savings would be massive, as would the market.

Yet you never see miracle heaters installed in these places do you?

fishybusiness

Many thanks for that. It's good to get an alternative point of view and especially from someone who has used them. Can I ask if you think they reduce the heating costs by an sizeable amount?

Well, here is some data from last night and today….for previously mentioned room


Overnight,12 hours 18 minutes, stopped 8.36am this morning, -3 C outside.

6.1 kWh used in that time by the 600W infrared panel, on a digital thermostatic controller, room temp 19 to 20 C.

Using 0.5kWh



This morning, 8:30 am until 11:52, started -3 C outside, up to about 4 C by lunch. Panel used 1.8 kWh

Using 0.47kWh

Then swapped to a 1.5kW oil filled radiator,

Radiator 2:45 mins 2.1 kWh, switched off at 2:45pm this afternoon.

Using 0.76kWh, warmest part of day.

No heat until about 16:45pm, then oil filled radiator on for 1hr 54 minutes, and 1.6kWh. room temp back to 20 ish.

Using 0.84kWh


Back to infrared panel again, outside temp dropping, checked at 9pm, -2.5 C outside, inside 19C. Panel has again been running, 2hrs 12min and drawn 1.0 kWh.

Using 0.45kWh

So, yes they do save money, they draw approx. half of the current of the oil filled radiator, and the room is just as warm.

Cardew

fishybusiness wrote: »

Well, here is some data from last night and today….for previously mentioned room



So, yes they do save money, they draw approx. half of the current of the oil filled radiator, and the room is just as warm.

Words(almost) fail me!

You should nominate the manufacturers for the Nobel prize for Physics!

Or learn how to conduct an experiment!

fishybusiness

Words(almost) fail me!

Words never fail you. Here we are again, I have to say I expected more from you this time.

Fact: Our panel draws max 600W.
Fact Our panel maintains the temperature in our living room.

Why not come over, have a look, I'd like to meet you, maybe I will learn something from the 'Master'.

grahamc2003

fishybusiness wrote: »

Words never fail you. Here we are again, I have to say I expected more from you this time.

Fact: Our panel draws max 600W.
Fact Our panel maintains the temperature in our living room.

Why not come over, have a look, I'd like to meet you, maybe I will learn something from the 'Master'.

What you appear to be implying, or deducing from your experiment, is that 600W produces the same heat as 1500W. (It's hard to tell what you are actually saying, because it doesn't really make any sense ... e.g. what does 'Using 0.47kWh' mean, especially just after you said you used 6.1kWh!).

If your room loses heat at 0.5kW, then you have to supply heat at an average rate of 0.5kW to maintain the temperature. It doesn't matter whether you sypply 0.5kW with a 500W heat on constantly, or a 1kW heater on half the time, or a 1.5kw heater on 1/3 of the time. they'll all cost the same, even if they are from radiative panels, a fan heater, a halogen heater or a bank of 5 100W lightbulbs.

If your experimental results don't agree with the above, then, if you haven't realised already, it indicates your experimental method is lacking (putting it mildly).

Cardew

fishybusiness wrote: »

Words never fail you. Here we are again, I have to say I expected more from you this time.

Fact: Our panel draws max 600W.
Fact Our panel maintains the temperature in our living room.

Why not come over, have a look, I'd like to meet you, maybe I will learn something from the 'Master'.

If your panel draws 600watts and maintains the temperature in the room, then an oil filled radiator or any other electrical heater drawing the same 600watts will also maintain the temperature in the room.

Heat can be measured using different terms British Thermal Units, Joules, Calories.

Any electrical heater using XkWh will produce EXACTLY the same amount of heat measured using any term you wish.

To claim that your infrared panels can produce twice the amount of heat as your oil filled radiator for the same consumption of electricity is simply incorrect, wrong, false, impossible!

There are thousands of entries on the web that will confirm that what I state is correct, it really is a basic law of physics.

I can understand that you might have paid a lot of money for your infrared heaters(or you sell them!) and it is hard to admit you have been scammed.

Would it make you feel better if other people were also scammed?

fishybusiness

If your room loses heat at 0.5kW, then you have to supply heat at an average rate of 0.5kW to maintain the temperature. It doesn't matter whether you sypply 0.5kW with a 500W heat on constantly, or a 1kW heater on half the time, or a 1.5kw heater on 1/3 of the time. they'll all cost the same, even if they are from radiative panels, a fan heater, a halogen heater or a bank of 5 100W lightbulbs.

I know???????????????????????? Durrrr!

Lets look at it another way, I have no issue with anyone using any method to heat their home, at any cost. I don't believe or disbelieve anyone else's claims unless I can in some way prove them, or have experience with them.

My point is this...

Last winter our home was very cold, and heated with Dimplex convector heaters, which although they produce heat, they do so in a very expensive way, as we all know.

Our living room, which we use a great deal is one of the coldest as it has two large patio doors plus windows. The standard calcs, based on the 4m x 4m room, 4.2m 2 of window and 2.4m of ceiling and one outside insulated cavity wall suggests about 1800w is required at -1C to maintain temperature of about 20 C.

So, what to do, as the electricity bills were killing us. I came across infrared, and as I was used to it being used in industry, I could see the benefits, but not necessarily in a home environment. These panels do not emit any light, or store heat energy, so are difficult to understand, and finding Boltzmanns law plastered all over the internet, linked with these panels I decided to take a chance. They couldn't be any worse than the Dimplex wonders we had.

The company we purchased from advised about 850W in our living space, as they would be wall mounted rather than ceiling mounted, so I opted for two 600W panels.

Normally, one does the job, although last night it was -2.5 all night, and was only 17 C in the living room this morning - obviously the one panel I now have in the living room is not quite enough, but I knew that anyway.

Without the panel, the room gets cold, quite quickly, as you would expect, bearing in mind most of the house is unheated during the day.

With one panel switched on, and running nearly flat out, our living space maintains a solid 19 to 20 C. Flat out being 600W.

I don't care for the physics comments, and nothing useful comes from them, they are almost a dig from the 'Master', having a laugh at my expense.

What I care about is the temperature in our living space and the amount of energy we consume maintaining that temperature.

Dig at me all you like, the facts are as presented. I consider it important that the forum allows me to have an opinion without being shouted down, and if you don't believe me, come and see for yourself.