Mass estate ticketing - should we all appeal?

honest_home_owner

Orford wrote: »

No you let PTL spend £2.50 with the DVLA and then appeal to PTL after they have sent the first threatening letter

That makes more sense. The reason for my questions was that the housing association were very quick to push everyone to appeal to the ppc. If like me you were knew to this scam would have contacted the ppc immediately the ticket was found on the vehicle.

Kennny

Orford wrote: »

Kenny,

What has happened since?

Are residents still displaying the original HA supplied permits?
Or have new 'valid' ones been issued?
If not, have PTL issued any more PCNs?

The HA has told us to continue to use our existing permits; they've not indicated they'll be issuing new ones. They said that for those tenants whose permits have faded, they must pay £5 for a new one!

When mine faded last year and I asked for a replacement, they expected me to take time off work and take my documentation to them, even though the car was the same and the permit is only valid for its registration. After getting nowhere telling them how unreasonable this was, and asking why they hadn't used indelible ink, I decided to use my own pen to go over the original writing - which has been fine ever since!

Anyway, I don't know who botched up here - maybe they both did - but it certainly wasn't the tenants.

I'd like to ask them why they continued using clamping right up until 1 October. The legislation was brought in to outlaw clamping because it was a discredited system, it never helped any tenant to find they couldn't park for hours because some poor sod was clamped in their parking space, so any half way decent HA would have dropped clamping long ago, not waited until the law compelled them- - a point I shall be making to them!

bazster

Orford wrote: »

No you let PTL spend £2.50 with the DVLA and then appeal to PTL after they have sent the first threatening letter

Correct. And you carefully check both the original ticket (the Notice to Driver) and the letter (the Notice to Keeper) to see if they comply with the requirements of the POFA. If they don't (and we haven't seen one yet that does) then there is no RK liability.

But you don't tell PTL this, you send them some feeble appeal that they are bound to reject, being very careful not to admit to being the driver. Then when you appeal to POPLA you point out the flaws in the Notices which mean that, as Registered Keeper, you cannot be held liable.

Kennny

The PTL make a big deal about taking photographic evidence showing the car in proximity to one of their signs. They also say that any appeal has to be supported by evidence.

Presumably, as all the tenants were given tickets with the reason 'invalid permit', they would have to have taken a photograph of the permit as displayed in each car's window?

Much of the advice above, which I've really appreciated, has been about taking them to POPLA appeal, to cause them the most cost. But I wonder, if they were arrogant enough to try and take us to court, could that cost them more?

BASFORDLAD

They wont take you to court , trust me

ManxRed

Nothing to stop both happening (unless POPLA rule in your favour).

In reality, these PPCs don't do court, as they know they'd lose.

devonlad

Why don't you type up a letter and post it through every door concerned. Just something simple like got a ticket. Got a permit then check out this internet link. Get lots of you to read the threads etc. If you all stick together as a unit it will hurt them hard.
Think about it they pay someone minimum wage to give unenforceable tickets. Immediate loss. Then paper chase more loss. New rules bigger loss. Fake threats bigger loss. Stick together till the end massive loss. You could be an ambassador in bringing them down.

devonlad

Once you have stuck together contact your local press with your story. No ppc likes the press

peter_the_piper

Kennny wrote: »

The PTL make a big deal about taking photographic evidence showing the car in proximity to one of their signs. They also say that any appeal has to be supported by evidence.

Presumably, as all the tenants were given tickets with the reason 'invalid permit', they would have to have taken a photograph of the permit as displayed in each car's window?

Much of the advice above, which I've really appreciated, has been about taking them to POPLA appeal, to cause them the most cost. But I wonder, if they were arrogant enough to try and take us to court, could that cost them more?

With them saying you must have their permit and HA saying you must have theirs they would be mad to even consider court, it would be thrown out on this alone.

Coupon-mad

Kennny wrote: »

Sorry, I should have confirmed it was after 1 October - just last week.

I wonder what might happen if I just ignored the parking ticket people, and just sent a terse letter to the housing association. As neither I nor my fellow tenants have parked improperly, surely we can't be compelled make an appeal on pain of getting 'invoiced' more?

Yes but surely you want to inform your neighbours what you've learnt here, even if you just print off some of this thread & put it up in conspicuous places? Anyone who falls for this rubbish will have been scammed. They do NOT have to appeal at all and the tickets have no legal clout.