Just had a crash, who's fault is it? Need advice please

leedsmodus

Hi, I work in Insurance Claims. If the accident happened on a Roundabout then it always goes as a 50/50 claim as you are both equally responsible in the eyes of an Insurer for the others actions.
If it happened after exiting a roundabout then you have more recourse for stating you are not at fault.
I work for one of the top 3 insurers by the way

leedsmodus

However......... if you can get the other person to admit all liability then you are ok.
Tip of the day. Ring the 3rd party and get a friend to tape the conversation (use your mobile loud speaker in a quiet environment),
If they admit liability, bluetooth conversation to pc, burn it on a cd and send to the 3rd party insurance company by special delivery and covering letter.
then it is happy days...........

works a treat, underhand? nope, covers one ar**

Jamie_Carter

demonted wrote: »

Or the driving instructor was in the correct lane with every intention to leave the roundabout at the second exit, which the road markings permit and the highway code allows and was indicating right to show vehicles approaching from behind and to the side that they was not leaving at the first exit when the op overtook and attempted leave at the first exit using the second lane.

Read the highway code...you don't indicate right to go straight over a roundabout. Or are you one of those really annoying people who does that?

cajef

Not sure why everyone is arguing, the OP is known to make things up and change his stories look at his past posting history, his version of the incident is just that and really we will never know what actually happened though I would be inclined to believe a qualified driving instructors version rather than a inexperienced driver who has only recently passed his test.

Jamie_Carter

demonted wrote: »

You're the one who needs to read the highway code, everything I say make perfect sense to me.

If a vehicle is indicating right in such circumstances, do all motorist to the side or approaching from the rear ignor all possibilities and eventualities as they believe the vehicle indicating is in the wrong lane so plough on regardless !

Indicating right on a roundabout can mean the indicating vehicle wishes to change lanes and every motorist has the right to do so, as a vehicle can only enter a roundabout when it's clear to do so.
Any vehicles approaching from the rear should reduce speed accordingly to allow the vehicle ahead to complete their manoeuvre.

However, if a vehicle is sat on the approach road of the roundabout in the second, third or fourth lane with their right indicator on, it's only natural to assume the vehicle is intending to leave the roundabout at the second, third or even the fourth exit.

Although, as motorist we should never assume but wait until a indicating vehicle has completed their manuouver.

The only lane changing on a roundabout should be outwards. If you are turning right you go straight to the inside lane, and then move outwards as you pass each junction. So you should never be indicating right to change land, and should only be doing so to turn right.....read the highway code.

Darfyddi

So much crud in this thread - wish admins could crop out the 'non helpful / abusive posts'. Anyone thinking another user is trolling then just walk away - replying only assists trolling making you guilty of aiding and abetting. All roundabouts are different and the only good information from the highway code about them is: to give way to the right when entering; signal when exiting even if taking first exit; always signal when changing lanes; always give way when changing lanes; Always check exit is clear when leaving roundabout.
On roundabouts it is not always easy to thoroughly check blind spots due to traffic density and speed and severe avoidance of an accident could prove worse - every one behind you is accelerating (meaning foot at maximum distance from brake pedal) behind you and they also have the right of way so won't expect to have to stop. Just slaming on the brakes might cause a bigger pile up then stopping quickly in a controlled manner with slight contact to another vehicle - a large van or lorry behind you can now easily keep up with cars off the line but they still don't stop as fast as cars can. Swerving left or right might push another family off a roundabout bridge so any accidents on roundabouts must be handled carefully to minimise further problems.

To trueunitedfan only:

In the event of any vehicle crash go in with the minset that it is always the other party at fault - never ever admit liability at the crash site. The facts of the crash will come out with the investigation by the insurance companies and then blame propotioned appropiatley - typically automatically 50/50 on roundabouts.
After a minor bump it is best to try and get the vehicles into a safe possition if the traffic is still flowing - if it is a serious crash then leave the vehicles there for the police. Check if you and your passengers are ok, count slowy to five to clear your head a little, get a pen and some paper, count slowly to five again to calm down then go and ask if the occupants of the other vehicle are ok - their driver would have probable got out by this time so ask the driver if they are ok then ask if their passangers are ok, then ask if they are sure if they are ok -by the time you have got through this some of their adreneline should have subsided making for a calmer exchange of details.

At the scene of the crash site you are obliged to give your vehicle registration and insurance details - you are not obliged to carry your insurance with you however so you can give the car registration and the company name you are insured with for them to pass to their insurance: if 3rd party wishes to object and cite law for your insurance number then let them get the police out where you can then explain to the police you are trying to co-operate and have already given the company name and your reg' - they will get the details for you over their radio.

It is easy to shout 'take photo's at the time it happened' but no matter how minor a bump is the instant shock will make you forget the basic things and most roundabouts are not safe enough to start running around on taking photos. If you didn't get any at the time then go back when it is quiet and bright and take some, google mapping is ok but real photos please judges more.
In the event of ANY accident that invloves another person or their property you MUST notify your insurance as soon as is reasonably possible.

If you think and are adamant that you are not at fault then tell this to your insurers from the very start and also put it in writing that you will see the 3rd party in court if needs be.
Never give your phone number to the other party - I see you did this: WHY? Hell, a muppet cut me up on a roundabout and I was worried when I found out in court we had to give our full names and addresses in front of each other.

The letter you got from a 'legal' firm looks about the same as one I received with my similar issue - DO NOT REPLY! forward it to your insurance. You pay insurance for this and 3rd party already have your insurance details they should be writing to them. It is common practice in these sort of cases for the 3rd party to bypass your insurance and write straight to you to scare you into saying or agreeing things that you shouldn't do. Just reading all the posts replied to your thread could make it seem that anything and everything happened like Chinese whispers.

The photo-shop of goolge map you did with the dots on it is what you need to email your insurance company, take photos too and do the same thing. It is handy if you know for a fact which entrance 3rd party entered the roundabout on but not essential - if you were in lane 2 on the entrance you marked in the picture then every single lane in every entrance on the roundabout that she could have used still means that she cut you up - the only way this could not be true is (taking your road as 1' the next as 2' and your exit as 3' etc.) if you entered the roundabout at lane2entrance 1' at speed and she entered lane1entrance2' then your paths would cross and (providing you were both within the speed limit) then it will be 50/50 - she didn't give way to the right and you didn't check the exit was clear.
The witness you have must be truely independant - they are no use if they know you in anyway so leave it to the insurance company to speak to them.
DO NOT SPEAK TO 3RD PARTY! The only times this is ok is if you are already friends with 3rd party before the crash but then you would be sorting it out amicably.
You will have to pay the excess if you want to have your car repaired - you can choose the garage you want within reason but it is always best to choose a repair center that is for your car, e.g. Ford crash shop for Ford car. Most garages and insurance companies will give you some time to save up the excess to pay for this as it has to paid by you straight to the repair centre. If you are in a crash and the 3rd party admits fault or it is super easy to prove fault then speak to your insurance about getting them to cover your excess as they will know within a few days that 3rd party is 100% liable.

No mater who is at fault if you are entitled to a courtesy car while yours is being repaired then you can take it - you already paid for it with your premiums and if it is your fault you are going to pay mega for it with future premiums whether you have the courtesy car or not.

Normally if both parties will not admit any fault then court is inevatible but may be a long time after the crash date (over a year for me) - by this time whoever is to blame for the crash is likely have supplied countless different stories and will also struggle to tell a same story again. It is important if you do go to court that you stick to fact and only hypothesise in scenarios like: "the claimant drove into my car from the left - I believe she entered the roundabout from the same direction as me but in lane 1 which is left or straight on only - not right turn". And don't be afraid to show emtion if you want to raise your voice when you are called a liar by the 3rd party's barrister - just remain extremely civil and polite.
If you go to court don't expect to claim any losses other than a day off work if that applies- you were not injured and it will pay you to be truthful and generous about this in court - so many 'easy claims' for injury now will put you in a good light if you were a bit shook up and slightly sore and stiff for a few days but didn't think it was right to claim for something a young fit man like you could overcome easily in a few more days. From what I can gather in this thread, the 3rd IS claiming injury? That might go against her as if she entered the roundabout side-by-side with you then it would be a glancing blow as indicated on your photo of the damage and this would not cause any other problem then just her braking and you did the same and stopped in the same distance without any problems. If she entered from the next road around from you then she would not have been going fast enough to have injured herself unless she entered the roundabout already at speed (no stopping to check/giveway) which puts her at fault. When this happened to me I was unable to insure my car for a whle year but had to keep it taxed due to landlords carpark rules and this left me out of pocket paying for tax on a car which was Off Road but I was unable to claim for this - I was however able to claim for the 14 or so A4 photographic paper and printer ink I used to present in court and although we agreed in court that £20.00ish (I think) was fair to pay for that cumalitve interest was then added on for the year and a bit duration.

No matter who is at fault here the facts should come out. If you push this far enough and if she is found to be at fault then it may you more confidant with your abilty to drive but remind you to take more care to avoid muppets as no sane person would want to go through this hassle. If you are found to be at fault then it will be a lesson learnt for you and you will have to think carefully about your driving in the future. No matter what happens try to save up for a car camera 'Road Hawk' type thing - I am trying to save for one and hopefully it will help should any of the 'crash for cash' attempts I have seen people try to pull on me actually work.

If you want to know more about what happened to me when I had similar thing in Cov then please message me - I am about to get a ton of abuse here just for trying to help so might avoid this thread now. Apologies for any spelling or gramatical errors - have a teething baby that totally destroys our energy through the day.

Tilt

Excellent post from Darfyddi. :T

cyclonebri1

leedsmodus wrote: »

Hi, I work in Insurance Claims. If the accident happened on a Roundabout then it always goes as a 50/50 claim as you are both equally responsible in the eyes of an Insurer for the others actions.
If it happened after exiting a roundabout then you have more recourse for stating you are not at fault.
I work for one of the top 3 insurers by the way

I really didn't think there was a top 3 of insurers, only in their eyes anyway

cyclonebri1

Darfyddi wrote: »

So much crud in this thread - wish admins could crop out the 'non helpful / abusive posts'. Anyone thinking another user is trolling then just walk away - replying only assists trolling making you guilty of aiding and abetting. All roundabouts are different and the only good information from the highway code about them is: to give way to the right when entering; signal when exiting even if taking first exit; always signal when changing lanes; always give way when changing lanes; Always check exit is clear when leaving roundabout.
On roundabouts it is not always easy to thoroughly check blind spots due to traffic density and speed and severe avoidance of an accident could prove worse - every one behind you is accelerating (meaning foot at maximum distance from brake pedal) behind you and they also have the right of way so won't expect to have to stop. Just slaming on the brakes might cause a bigger pile up then stopping quickly in a controlled manner with slight contact to another vehicle - a large van or lorry behind you can now easily keep up with cars off the line but they still don't stop as fast as cars can. Swerving left or right might push another family off a roundabout bridge so any accidents on roundabouts must be handled carefully to minimise further problems.

To trueunitedfan only:

In the event of any vehicle crash go in with the minset that it is always the other party at fault - never ever admit liability at the crash site. The facts of the crash will come out with the investigation by the insurance companies and then blame propotioned appropiatley - typically automatically 50/50 on roundabouts.
After a minor bump it is best to try and get the vehicles into a safe possition if the traffic is still flowing - if it is a serious crash then leave the vehicles there for the police. Check if you and your passengers are ok, count slowy to five to clear your head a little, get a pen and some paper, count slowly to five again to calm down then go and ask if the occupants of the other vehicle are ok - their driver would have probable got out by this time so ask the driver if they are ok then ask if their passangers are ok, then ask if they are sure if they are ok -by the time you have got through this some of their adreneline should have subsided making for a calmer exchange of details.

At the scene of the crash site you are obliged to give your vehicle registration and insurance details - you are not obliged to carry your insurance with you however so you can give the car registration and the company name you are insured with for them to pass to their insurance: if 3rd party wishes to object and cite law for your insurance number then let them get the police out where you can then explain to the police you are trying to co-operate and have already given the company name and your reg' - they will get the details for you over their radio.

It is easy to shout 'take photo's at the time it happened' but no matter how minor a bump is the instant shock will make you forget the basic things and most roundabouts are not safe enough to start running around on taking photos. If you didn't get any at the time then go back when it is quiet and bright and take some, google mapping is ok but real photos please judges more.
In the event of ANY accident that invloves another person or their property you MUST notify your insurance as soon as is reasonably possible.

If you think and are adamant that you are not at fault then tell this to your insurers from the very start and also put it in writing that you will see the 3rd party in court if needs be.
Never give your phone number to the other party - I see you did this: WHY? Hell, a muppet cut me up on a roundabout and I was worried when I found out in court we had to give our full names and addresses in front of each other.

The letter you got from a 'legal' firm looks about the same as one I received with my similar issue - DO NOT REPLY! forward it to your insurance. You pay insurance for this and 3rd party already have your insurance details they should be writing to them. It is common practice in these sort of cases for the 3rd party to bypass your insurance and write straight to you to scare you into saying or agreeing things that you shouldn't do. Just reading all the posts replied to your thread could make it seem that anything and everything happened like Chinese whispers.

The photo-shop of goolge map you did with the dots on it is what you need to email your insurance company, take photos too and do the same thing. It is handy if you know for a fact which entrance 3rd party entered the roundabout on but not essential - if you were in lane 2 on the entrance you marked in the picture then every single lane in every entrance on the roundabout that she could have used still means that she cut you up - the only way this could not be true is (taking your road as 1' the next as 2' and your exit as 3' etc.) if you entered the roundabout at lane2entrance 1' at speed and she entered lane1entrance2' then your paths would cross and (providing you were both within the speed limit) then it will be 50/50 - she didn't give way to the right and you didn't check the exit was clear.
The witness you have must be truely independant - they are no use if they know you in anyway so leave it to the insurance company to speak to them.
DO NOT SPEAK TO 3RD PARTY! The only times this is ok is if you are already friends with 3rd party before the crash but then you would be sorting it out amicably.
You will have to pay the excess if you want to have your car repaired - you can choose the garage you want within reason but it is always best to choose a repair center that is for your car, e.g. Ford crash shop for Ford car. Most garages and insurance companies will give you some time to save up the excess to pay for this as it has to paid by you straight to the repair centre. If you are in a crash and the 3rd party admits fault or it is super easy to prove fault then speak to your insurance about getting them to cover your excess as they will know within a few days that 3rd party is 100% liable.

No mater who is at fault if you are entitled to a courtesy car while yours is being repaired then you can take it - you already paid for it with your premiums and if it is your fault you are going to pay mega for it with future premiums whether you have the courtesy car or not.

Normally if both parties will not admit any fault then court is inevatible but may be a long time after the crash date (over a year for me) - by this time whoever is to blame for the crash is likely have supplied countless different stories and will also struggle to tell a same story again. It is important if you do go to court that you stick to fact and only hypothesise in scenarios like: "the claimant drove into my car from the left - I believe she entered the roundabout from the same direction as me but in lane 1 which is left or straight on only - not right turn". And don't be afraid to show emtion if you want to raise your voice when you are called a liar by the 3rd party's barrister - just remain extremely civil and polite.
If you go to court don't expect to claim any losses other than a day off work if that applies- you were not injured and it will pay you to be truthful and generous about this in court - so many 'easy claims' for injury now will put you in a good light if you were a bit shook up and slightly sore and stiff for a few days but didn't think it was right to claim for something a young fit man like you could overcome easily in a few more days. From what I can gather in this thread, the 3rd IS claiming injury? That might go against her as if she entered the roundabout side-by-side with you then it would be a glancing blow as indicated on your photo of the damage and this would not cause any other problem then just her braking and you did the same and stopped in the same distance without any problems. If she entered from the next road around from you then she would not have been going fast enough to have injured herself unless she entered the roundabout already at speed (no stopping to check/giveway) which puts her at fault. When this happened to me I was unable to insure my car for a whle year but had to keep it taxed due to landlords carpark rules and this left me out of pocket paying for tax on a car which was Off Road but I was unable to claim for this - I was however able to claim for the 14 or so A4 photographic paper and printer ink I used to present in court and although we agreed in court that £20.00ish (I think) was fair to pay for that cumalitve interest was then added on for the year and a bit duration.

No matter who is at fault here the facts should come out. If you push this far enough and if she is found to be at fault then it may you more confidant with your abilty to drive but remind you to take more care to avoid muppets as no sane person would want to go through this hassle. If you are found to be at fault then it will be a lesson learnt for you and you will have to think carefully about your driving in the future. No matter what happens try to save up for a car camera 'Road Hawk' type thing - I am trying to save for one and hopefully it will help should any of the 'crash for cash' attempts I have seen people try to pull on me actually work.

If you want to know more about what happened to me when I had similar thing in Cov then please message me - I am about to get a ton of abuse here just for trying to help so might avoid this thread now. Apologies for any spelling or gramatical errors - have a teething baby that totally destroys our energy through the day.

That is a flawed post and way too long

The abuse you expected will be all about the bits I highlighted, all flawed I'm afraid.

The biggest issue is that your post as all based on your own single experience.:(:(, and is not correct in all cases.

Tilt

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

That is a flawed post and way too long

The abuse you expected will be all about the bits I highlighted, all flawed I'm afraid.

The biggest issue is that your post as all based on your own single experience.:(:(, and is not correct in all cases.

In your opinion.