Nature or nurture

skipsmum

mazza111 wrote: »

But that doesn't stop us feeling it. How can we stop feeling something we feel? Please, I would dearly love not to feel that if my son should come to me. I've been totally honest here with all of you, it's my feelings. I would be proud of my son even if he was gay or even if he sprouted an extra head, I'd still be proud that he's grown up to be a fine young lad, but I would still have that disappointment in ME not in him.

Mazza, although I don't agree with you, I understand what you are saying and appreciate your honesty. There are still countries that execute gay people, we live in a very homophobic world that will take more than one generation to change and we want to protect our children from everything. However the one place they need to be safe and understood is at home and by their parents.


I think if each generation can change their attitude just a little bit it will help.

Grandfather in Law is incredibly homophobic.

FIL was very homophobic but has become more accepting since BIL told him he is gay.

DH is a little bit homophobic but again has become much more accepting since BIL told him he is gay. We have gay and lesbian friends but he would probably be disappointed if DS is gay.

DS is not homophobic at all, is close to his gay uncle and has gay friends. He is not gay but would be comfortable with himself if he was.

If DS has children they will hopefully be comfortable with their sexuality.
And so on down the generations.


Some families are ahead, some are behind, but as long as there is some improvement things are changing for the better.

mazza111

skipsmum wrote: »

Mazza, although I don't agree with you, I understand what you are saying and appreciate your honesty. There are still countries that execute gay people, we live in a very homophobic world that will take more than one generation to change and we want to protect our children from everything. However the one place they need to be safe and understood is at home and by their parents.

Thank you for your honesty, I do appreciate it. I really wouldn't want to feel like this. And I would be understanding and they both know they can always come here. I just can't lose that feeling iykwim. And I really think it is from a selfish pov. I don't think I would be so much disappointed if my dd came home and said she was gay, but is that my maternal instincts? Because it's unlikely that she will ever have kids?

I really don't know. I wish I could understand it myself so I could explain it better to others. I'm certainly not trying to offend anyone, please forgive me if I have. I'm 100% sure my ds is straight, if he's not he's putting up a good show, so I probably won't have to cross that bridge However, if I did, it would just be one of those things that life throws at you. And as I said, it certainly wouldn't be his problem, it would be mine. I know the world is changing, I remember a wee girl at my ds class at school who had gay parents, and I just remember the torment that we lass went through and would hate any of my children/grandchildren to go through that too. Maybe it is a maternal thing, I really don't know. Hands up and admit that.

As I said, I only wish I understood my feelings better so that could explain them better, and not coming across as a homophobe, I'm not, I promise

lostinrates

mazza111 wrote: »

Thank you for your honesty, I do appreciate it. I really wouldn't want to feel like this. And I would be understanding and they both know they can always come here. I just can't lose that feeling iykwim. And I really think it is from a selfish pov. I don't think I would be so much disappointed if my dd came home and said she was gay, but is that my maternal instincts? Because it's unlikely that she will ever have kids?

I really don't know. I wish I could understand it myself so I could explain it better to others. I'm certainly not trying to offend anyone, please forgive me if I have. I'm 100% sure my ds is straight, if he's not he's putting up a good show, so I probably won't have to cross that bridge However, if I did, it would just be one of those things that life throws at you. And as I said, it certainly wouldn't be his problem, it would be mine. I know the world is changing, I remember a wee girl at my ds class at school who had gay parents, and I just remember the torment that we lass went through and would hate any of my children/grandchildren to go through that too. Maybe it is a maternal thing, I really don't know. Hands up and admit that.

As I said, I only wish I understood my feelings better so that could explain them better, and not coming across as a homophobe, I'm not, I promise

I understand what you mean I think, and get it.

I bred a very fine horse once that i had high hopes would be a particular thing, but she wasn't. I was a little disappointed she was not what we had hoped for, but loved her for what she was fully and completely.

Its become almost taboo to suggest that we are not perfect and those around us are not always what we would want them to be, for whatever reason, but its truthful and brave to admit how you feel on this.

I have had this discussion with others before, and truely don't know how i would feel in this situation now.

Re nature v nurture, i don't think it matters why people have any non harmful sexual preferance. Fwiw we noticed a strange thing that a flurry of our male gay friends decided in late twenties and into early thirties (where we are now) they are NOT gay after all. These include some 'straight acting' men and some 'camper' guys. None of them are saying they identify as bisexual, but rather straight. I obviously cannot know what will happen in the future for these friends, but i hope its good whoever they end up with or how they identify.

System

Maybe disappointed is not the word I'm looking for here... I don't know. I wouldn't be happy about it. But again, that's probably for selfish reasons and I totally admit to that. No need to keep having a go for it. I admit it.

No actually, I think it probably would be disappointment, again, my problem not my child's. And again I would support my child with whatever they became in life as long as they are happy. I can't say healthy as I have an unhealthy one, through no fault of her own. Guess what, I'm disappointed that she's like that too, not with her, with the situation she's now in. I'm hurting like hell to know that I've passed her a wonky gene that's left her rather disabled. Again it's not her fault, it's nothing she could avoid, but I'm still disappointed... Again, I'm not saying being gay is an illness, I'm just trying to put my feelings down here and be as honest about it as I can be.

I am sorry if you find this offensive. I can't change who or what I am though. I wish I could feel differently.

I dont find what you say offensive and i understand where your coming from.

I went through phases of belief that my daughter would 'grow out of it' but at the age of 30 now i dont think theres much chance of that.

Then i wondered where she had 'got' it from. My side or the ex's. Was it my fault?

I struggled with my feelings when she went through a Civil Partnership. I had to cajole my husband (her Stepfather) to come with me as he is very much anti gay and thought the whole idea was a farce and i sat in the car before we went in bawling me head off because she ought to have been marrying a man!

Then there was the children issue. She would make a wonderful Mum but to be honest, i could never see her being pregnant and to be honest, neither could she.

Ive now got to the stage that i dont look at her sexuality as an issue at all. She is a wonderful selfless woman, her partner is just as wonderful and as selfless as my daughter is and i love her like she was one of my own.

I look at it now as i have three daughters and not two and i'm almost at the stage where i can tell people she is a lesbian without having that disappointed tone in my voice.

My daughter is what she is and i love her for it.

System

They say once a Mum always a Mum and i agree. About 3 years ago i had just booked my 3 yearly smear test at the doctors and i thought about my girls as much as i was thinking of myself. I asked what age they start doing routine smear tests (thinking of my youngest who was 23).

I also sent a message to my older daughter to tell her she really needed to book a smear test as far as i knew she had never had one. She sent me a message back 'Mom what do i need a smear test for ive never had sex?' So i marched back into the surgery to enquire. Little things like that you see dont register with me, i look at the woman first and not the sexuality.

Oh and yes, she still needed a smear test i was told.

mazza111

Thanks guys. Feel a wee bit reassured that I'm not being offensive when I say these things. As I said, all I want is for my children to be healthy, wealthy and wise, (J/K) but would settle for the first

I really don't know how to express myself with these feelings I would have, probably as I don't understand them myself. But I'm finished worrying about them now, we'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it

daska

I too would love to have grandchildren and if I don't I will probably be disappointed, but it's my desire and my feelings, it doesn't reflect on my children or affect the way I feel about them.

I'm sort of in this position already, while DS1 looks forward to having a family DSD has already decided that it's not for her. That doesn't change how I feel about her in any way, but it would be fair to say I am disappointed that I won't have the opportunity to buy cute baby clothes and bake cakes with them. And until I read the comments on this thread, I would have assumed that everyone would understand that without equating that disappointment with disapproval.

My SIL also decided at a tender age that she would never to have children, we don't love her any the less or disapprove of her choice but that doesn't stop MIL from being sad that she's only got 4 grandchildren when she wanted at least 63.

And neither of them are gay so this feeling of disappointment is not exclusive to the relationship between parents and their gay children, it's a general one. And as such I struggle to see how it can be considered homophobic simply because the person is gay.

As an aside my MIL is disappointed that I w/couldn't have any more children after DS2 (warned not to for medical reasons) but I certainly wouldn't regard that disappointment as disabledphobic (struggling for a word there LOL) and it doesn't affect our relationship in the least.

BugglyB

I havent read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been covered already.

For men, being gay is about liking having sex with other men. Sorry to put it so bluntly but I think you need to hear it like this. Its not about crochet, or the Sound of Music, or not liking motorbikes. Its about having feelings of sexual attraction towards other men.

So unless you've been watching !!!!!! with your child, or reading gay erotica to him (?!) its highly unlikely you've influenced him, or nurtured him into being gay.

Maybe your son is gay, maybe not, either way, its not your influence that has caused his sexuality.

Did your mum nurture you into a heterosexual?

(on the subject of children - lots of gay people have children? not sure what the 'I'll never have grandkids' thing is about)

webitha

samtoby wrote: »

He went as far to say that if our son is gay that he will blame me for ever.

tell the ex that the fault would be his for not being more involved in his sons life on a consistant basis......idiot

so what if he is a caring soul...you are bringing him up to be the perfect husband...your future daughter in law is gonna thank you

cottonhead

I don't believe that anything you do will make your child turn out straight or gay. I dont believe its something determined by choice or by outside influence - someone is either gay or straight ( or bi) and thats it. There is a difference between being gay and being macho or feminine etc. I suspect that what your sons dad means - some of the things he does are more feminine in his eyes, but that got nothing to do with his sexual preference once he has one. Like the earlier poster said - the films you watch and the way you sit doenst mean you are gay or straight. Being gay or straight is your sexual preference and has nothing to do with all the stuff you mentioned your sons dad was going on about. Also here is another thought...... could someone persuad you to change your sexual preference by acting a certain way around you ? No of course not so why shoud your son be any different.
I suspect your sons dad is just expressing his own insecurities.