Nature or nurture

samtoby

I have been reluctant to post this but I have had enough of the comments that are made so I want some opinions.

Firstly I want to set the scene. I am 27 and have an 8 year old son. He has lived with me since I broke up with his Dad when I was 21. It has always been him and me until I met by boyfriend in l2011. My father died in 2010 and had no part in my sons’ life and subsequently I have no other males in my family.

I have always worked full time and my son has always been with my Mum out of time when I am at work. He does see his father but generally no set times he only lives down the road so generally it is on an as and when basis. It is generally for a few hours here and there. I have no issue with that and it is all my son has known so it has been fine.

My son is very shall I say ‘wise’ for an 8 year old. He does a lot at home that other Children probably don’t (and he doesn’t get pocket money for it! My choice but that’s another conversation) and is very aware of others feelings. He is almost someone who likes to do things to make me happy, whether that is good or bad. I am quite strict as a parent but he would never ever disobey me on the whole. A bit of answering back in the past but nipped that in the bud and its stopped. Its all testing I think sometimes.

Anyway. His father is a mans man. He is really homophobic. I don’t know why they call it that – its not a phobia – you are not scared….or maybe he is but anyway. Recently he has been going on and on that our son is going to be gay and it will be my fault. Our son does cross his legs when sat on a chair like a girl sometimes (But I do it.) He does like watching Snog Marry Avoid a programme about girls who get made over (But so do I.) And if I get my sewing machine out or wool to crochet he will want to know how I do it and what I am going to make. He has a few times dressed up in fancy dress womans’ clothes but so did the other children. He doesn’t like Football (Nor do I and his Dad loves it) He doesn’t like Motorbikes particularly and he doesn’t like game consuls. But he does like computers so much so he has asked for an old computer to take apart and put back together! His dad says he smiles like a girl, walks like a girl and is nosy like a girl…..it goes on and on. And I think its petty.

He went as far to say that if our son is gay that he will blame me for ever. Who cares if he is; to me it wouldn’t matter.

My boyfriend thinks its because my sons’ role model has mainly been me or my Mum and this has picked up in the things we like doing. It is not like we haven’t tried; I took him to play football on the lawn outside and to a match and have tried other sports and books relating to these but he is not interested. I have sent him to sports clubs but he ends up helping with other things like making the drinks and anything involving a computer!

I think when my boyfriend and I move in together soon; my son will then start spending time with a man a lot more and he will start to pick up on his tendencies and these ‘womanly traits – as his dad calls it may go’.

Can someone please help me, advise me? Is it nature or nurture?

(Please do not pick me out on my spelling or referrals of my son or our son you know what I mean)

balletshoes

I think you're right, I think once he has more of a sense of what males are like (when you are all ready to move in together) at home he may develop in a different way. Theres nothing wrong in how he is now though, you know that . His Dad sounds like a kn*b with his attitude, hopefully he never says anything like what he says to you around your son. He probably has picked up on it anyway, he's 8 and not stupid.

Does your son have good friends?

Courgette

Your son sounds like a lovely, caring and intelligent young man.

I have an idiot ex too, apparently he will disown our son if he 'turns out gay'. Ignore him - there's a hell of a lot more to life than football and a hell of a lot worse that could happen than to have a homosexual child. The man sounds like he's from the dark ages

thatgirlsam

If he turns out gay it won't be anything to do with the way he is brought up. That will be who he is, and it really shouldn't matter to his Dad. He sounds like a proper idiot.

podperson

Your ex sounds just lovely!! Just because your son may act a little feminine at times it doesn't mean he's going to grow up to be gay (not that there's anything wrong with him doing so!) I know some very 'feminine' acting straight guys and some gay guys who are into football/cars/shoot em up games etc. It doesn't always fit the stereotypes that some people seem to think it does.

Tbh I truly believe that being gay or straight is the way you're born and while being raised a certain way may either help you accept it easier or try to suppress it, then I don't think it changes the way you are inside.

At that age kids tend to copy the people around them, so if he's mainly around you, your mum, etc then yes he may have picked up some more 'feminine' looking gestures/habits. That may change when your partner moves in, it may not. As they get older anyway then they start to find their own identity much more.

Anyway, at least it sounds like he has a mum who will support him no matter what - though I do hope his dad doesn't say things like that around him!

onlyroz

I think that if you provide a range of activities for your son he will decide for himself what he prefers doing - it sounds like you've got the right attitude, and your ex just needs to get over himself.

I was a complete tom-boy and to my bewilderment my daughter is turning out to be a complete girly-girl. She loves dolls and dresses, and all the things that didn't interest me remotely as a child. I've provided toy trains and construction kits for her and she just isn't interested - and so I don't buy the argument that you can steer a child away from their natural inclinations.

In any case, even if your son does prefer dressing up, playing with dolls and doing arty/crafty things, it does not mean that he will turn out gay - not that it really matters either way.

samtoby

balletshoes wrote: »

I think you're right, I think once he has more of a sense of what males are like (when you are all ready to move in together) at home he may develop in a different way. Theres nothing wrong in how he is now though, you know that . His Dad sounds like a kn*b with his attitude, hopefully he never says anything like what he says to you around your son. He probably has picked up on it anyway, he's 8 and not stupid.

Does your son have good friends?

Yes he has friends and plays outside the house with them - they all play football he rides up and down on his scooter.

At school he gets invited to parties and to play etc so nothing there I don't think.

Our son does know he thinks that as he calls him a girl sometimes. 'Stop acting like a girl'. Was the latest. I just tell him Daddy is silly sometimes. And thats that; he doesn't look to his Dad for anything major apart from messing about.

He talks to me about everything and everything he gets told and knows. He for example spoke to me about whether I will have more children and whether I would let him help as he has always wanted to be a big brother. I was young when I had him so he has always been involved in daily life and not sheltered from upset or days when I have had no money; he knew I was in debt for example and searched for a page on the net of free activities! I felt guilty but his heart is all there.

samtoby

Courgette wrote: »

Your son sounds like a lovely, caring and intelligent young man.

I have an idiot ex too, apparently he will disown our son if he 'turns out gay'. Ignore him - there's a hell of a lot more to life than football and a hell of a lot worse that could happen than to have a homosexual child. The man sounds like he's from the dark ages

Thank you - I think what makes it worse is his dads brother has had a child and it is evident he is going to be the boyest boy ever!

mazza111

Awww. Your story sounds quite like my DS. He used to love dressing up in my high heeled boots along with his football kits. And we worried about him maybe being gay. But he liked other "manly" things. Just like your lad in taking an old pc to bits. TBH I think he done the dressing up thing to entertain people. He'd do anything for a laugh. We have pictures of him with his hair extensions in, his high heels, my bra with a couple of oranges in it :rotfl:

Just because they do things like this in childhood doesn't mean they are or are going to be gay. My ds is now a strapping 16 yr old who's been with his gf for over a year (too young to be going steady IMO but you know what first love is like) and yes, my x also blamed me for these things he done.

Let him grow and flourish naturally, being gay is not something u can make someone be or not be.

samtoby

podperson wrote: »

Your ex sounds just lovely!! Just because your son may act a little feminine at times it doesn't mean he's going to grow up to be gay (not that there's anything wrong with him doing so!) I know some very 'feminine' acting straight guys and some gay guys who are into football/cars/shoot em up games etc. It doesn't always fit the stereotypes that some people seem to think it does.

QUOTE]

I had never thought of that. I guess it doesn't always take the sterotypes you think.

peachyprice

I don't think for one minute it's nurture. If he's gay, he's gay, there's nothing you or your OH would be able to do to change that. A man/boy being in touch with their more feminine side has nothing to do with their eventual sexual orientation

Of course he's going to be interested in the thing around him, it's what his familiar with, but that WILL NOT make him gay.

My OH loves shopping (especially for women's pretty things for me and/or my friends) hates football, watches Don't Tell the Bride with me. Is he gay, no. He's 100% sure of his sexuality and is comfortable around gay men.

And even if he is, does it matter. You know you will love him unconditionally, if his father thinks it's a problem, well that's his loss and it would be sad that his own insecurities would mean that he would lose a son.

It's strange, having twin boys, I've been asked over the years 'what would I do if one were gay' but I've never really understood why anyone, especially another mother, would ask that.