General lack of respect for eachother

troglodyte

To get back to the original post, I have a question - probably you'll think it's a stupid one, but I haven't found the answer yet and I'm nearly 40. :rolleyes: If you go out with someone you already know (either only slightly or know well) when is that a 'date' and when are you just two people having a drink together or going along to see the same film at the same time etc? If you think of a 'date' as an event where a man (not already her friend, boyfriend or husband) asks a woman out for a drink/ dinner/ other entertainment and pays for her to go, I may have had one date when I was 18, but that's it. Otherwise I have always been out with people I'd known for a short or long time, or even just met at some event, and we've just gone to something else afterwards which may have been suggested by either of us. I always at least paid for myself or we took turns to buy drinks etc. Certainly when we were all skint students it didn't seem fair to expect anyone to pay for me when they didn't have any money either! I admit this is partly because my mother (who was born in the 1920s so it's certainly not a new idea) impressed on me the need to always pay for myself in case any man bought me a drink and then thought that he was entitled to something in return - and I certainly didn't want to feel that I owed anyone anything. (This sounds far-fetched but I've certainly heard men saying 'well I bought her dinner and then I didn't even get XXX ') And no I'm not some frigid feminist, I've been out with many men, have many male (and female) friends; perhaps that's what makes it complicated

nickyhutch

snowmaid wrote: »

I think you are missing the point, it has NOTHING to do with abilities but everything to do with being courteous.

That WAS my point. Since when has being courteous been something only men should do?

snowmaid

troglodyte wrote: »

To get back to the original post, I have a question - probably you'll think it's a stupid one, but I haven't found the answer yet and I'm nearly 40. :rolleyes: If you go out with someone you already know (either only slightly or know well) when is that a 'date' and when are you just two people having a drink together or going along to see the same film at the same time etc? If you think of a 'date' as an event where a man (not already her friend, boyfriend or husband) asks a woman out for a drink/ dinner/ other entertainment and pays for her to go, I may have had one date when I was 18, but that's it. Otherwise I have always been out with people I'd known for a short or long time, or even just met at some event, and we've just gone to something else afterwards which may have been suggested by either of us. I always at least paid for myself or we took turns to buy drinks etc. Certainly when we were all skint students it didn't seem fair to expect anyone to pay for me when they didn't have any money either! I admit this is partly because my mother (who was born in the 1920s so it's certainly not a new idea) impressed on me the need to always pay for myself in case any man bought me a drink and then thought that he was entitled to something in return - and I certainly didn't want to feel that I owed anyone anything. (This sounds far-fetched but I've certainly heard men saying 'well I bought her dinner and then I didn't even get XXX ') And no I'm not some frigid feminist, I've been out with many men, have many male (and female) friends; perhaps that's what makes it complicated

I think (personally of course!) that one generally knows when its a 'date' or not. And in this case if a guy is looking to get to know you better in a romantic way, i.e. perhaps starting to see you as more than a friend, then a good indication would be to say that he is taking YOU out and would like you to be his date. I have gone out with guy friends but funnily, even though I say I will get my own bill, they have refused and settled?? Although, in a group of us I have bought a round. Luckily, perhaps, I have never had a guy say to me that he expects more just because he bought me dinner. Why do people feel indebted to another just because they bought dinner?

snowmaid

nickyhutch wrote: »

That WAS my point. Since when has being courteous been something only men should do?

Oh no! Is that how I am coming across?? Don't mean to! I reckon just treat a man like a man, don't take away his masculinity. Be presentable, say thankyou when he makes little gestures, such as opening a door, instead of saying 'leave it, just cos I'm a woman doesn't make me less weak' or try drink him under the table, etc.

nickyhutch

I'd say treat a man like a person first, not someone whose masculinity needs to be protected. If he's "man" enough, he doesn't need us women simpering at him to prove it.

All I'm saying is that we should all offer these courtesies to each other, regardless of gender.

And If I drink a man under the table, I don't do so because I want to undermine his masculinity or prove something. I do it because I like getting drunk occasionally. Hic.

snowmaid

nickyhutch wrote: »

I'd say treat a man like a person first, not someone whose masculinity needs to be protected. If he's "man" enough, he doesn't need us women simpering at him to prove it.

All I'm saying is that we should all offer these courtesies to each other, regardless of gender.

And If I drink a man under the table, I don't do so because I want to undermine his masculinity or prove something. I do it because I like getting drunk occasionally. Hic.

Oh goodness, I am not advocating 'protecting' a male, but like it or not, there are some women who do go out of their way to emasculate men, the same as there are men who try remove every ounce of self respect or self esteem that a woman has. I think lots of men prefer a 'feminine', soft, woman to a loud, boisterous one.

niknaks

I don't know if you realise this Snowmaid (pun intended?) but I think your list sounds rather like you dislike other women?

I really can not see that lack of courtesy arises from a belief in equality.

I try to always treat men and women with equal respect.

snowmaid

niknaks wrote: »

I don't know if you realise this Snowmaid (pun intended?) but I think your list sounds rather like you dislike other women?

I really can not see that lack of courtesy arises from a belief in equality.

I try to always treat men and women with equal respect.

:rotfl: Neh, I do not 'dislike' other women! (Why do people always have to get personal?? I generalised and if you don't fit what I have observed, great!) As I have said, its just what I have noticed, what I 'overhear' (without meaning to!) and general conversation. I am all for equality, believe me. There is nothing I abhor more than a woman being treated like a slave, running round after her partner. My sister is a prime example of how she is always trying to ensure that her husband is content and happy, to the detriment of her own health so I am certainly not against women.

All I was doing was listing some of my 'own' observations and opinions, you are free to agree or disagree and I know there are MANY couples out there who do show a wonderful amount of respect and care towards eachother.

Alikay

I think too many people speak and act without thinking what effect it may have on other people, and how it will, in turn affect how others behave back. It costs nothing to be nice, but every day you hear people snapping and snarling at each other almost out of habit.

Of course, everyone has a row now and again, and children need to be disciplined, but I'm talking about the general conversational unkindness rudeness and disrespect. In our area, much of this seems to take place in supermarkets!! Do they pump the air full of adrenaline, testostorone and other aggression-increasing hormones, or is it just the environment?!!

I'd hate to live in an artificially "nice" Stepford-type place, but life is too short to be angry at everything and everybody. If we all treated people the way we'd like them to treat us, there'd be a lot more smiley happy people around.

snowmaid

Alikay wrote: »

I think too many people speak and act without thinking what effect it may have on other people, and how it will, in turn affect how others behave back. It costs nothing to be nice, but every day you hear people snapping and snarling at each other almost out of habit.

Of course, everyone has a row now and again, and children need to be disciplined, but I'm talking about the general conversational unkindness rudeness and disrespect. In our area, much of this seems to take place in supermarkets!! Do they pump the air full of adrenaline, testostorone and other aggression-increasing hormones, or is it just the environment?!!

I'd hate to live in an artificially "nice" Stepford-type place, but life is too short to be angry at everything and everybody. If we all treated people the way we'd like them to treat us, there'd be a lot more smiley happy people around.

I wonder if it couldn't be due to the fact that everyone is trying to assert their 'rights' as a human being, but it is being done in such a manner that people are forgetting to teach their children basic, decent principles on how to be polite, considerate etc, all in the name of 'human rights'. Personalities will always clash, that is a fact, but if people stopped thinking of 'me' and 'my rights' I think they would be a lot more happier inside.