delicate subject - abortion

cottonhead

I understand you need further information but as others have said I dont think this isnt an issue for a forum. Whether for or against abortion, there is no escaping the medical fact that it is taking a life. That in itself to me means its not something that can be casually discussed on a forum. You can easily use a search engine to find out about how each proceedure is done but again as others say its the doctors who will decide. I would focus on making sure there is emotional support in place. The 'proceedure' might be over in a day or 2 but the memories and regrets ( if there are some - there may not be - everyone is different after all ) cant be eradicated so quickly.

Person_one

marywooyeah wrote: »

if the OP does decide to come back then I think it's great she is supportive of this girl but unfortunately the hospitals dont always provide "non directional counselling". I specifically asked repeatedly about keeping the baby who I very much wanted and not once was I given any help, nor was adoption ever raised. It was just "abortion abortion abortion" and anyone who knows me on here knows what happened to me.

unfortunately when you see something everyday you can become hardened to it and although for your daughter's friend this is a huge thing for her she could be just another young pregnant girl coming through their doors to them. it shouldn't be like that but sometimes it is and this girl needs to be given full attention, advice and support for whatever she chooses to do

Another poster hit the nail on the head when they said she is seeing this through a young person's eyes - she needs to know the whole spectrum before she can make a decision.

places like brook and marie stopes are not likely to provide any pro life points of view as they make money out of abortions. is there a local pregnancy crisis centre you could take her to? alternatively she could contact Care Confidential - here is a link below:

You really really need to stop spreading this misinformation on every thread about abortion.

Marie Stopes, Brook and the NHS do not have a vested interest in terminating as many pregnancies as they possibly can. They are charities and you clearly have no idea about what they actually do.

Care Confidential are vehemently anti-abortion, they use any underhanded and unethical tactic they can to prevent women terminating their pregnancies. They couldn't be any further from impartial.

rachbc

Mary whilst I have every sympathy with what happened to you your experiences are very different from someone who chooses to have a termination of their own free will.

I did quite a bit of research in Care Confidential at work and their practices are extremely dubious/ unethical. Organisations like them try to scare women out of having abortions with tales of the emotion trauma they are likely to experience when the overwhelming evidence is that women who choose abortion without coercion experience no psychological ill effects.

Welshwoofs

rachbc wrote: »

Organisations like them try to scare women out of having abortions with tales of the emotion trauma they are likely to experience when the overwhelming evidence is that women who choose abortion without coercion experience no psychological ill effects.

I particularly hate that approach of frightening young women with lines about emotional trauma and that is one of the reasons why I am totally upfront about stating that I have had one and that I had one simply because I didn't want a child at that age.

I was lucky in that I knew I could tell my Mother I was pregnant (and I did) because she had told me early on that she'd had an abortion in the early 60s - a 'back street' job and she always instilled in me that it was a perfectly acceptable choice that was precious and hard won.

Honestly? All this rhetoric about 'it's the biggest decision of your life', 'it's emotionally traumatising' etc etc is just bunkum because the fact is that it is NOT for everyone! I got pregnant because I was young and dumb and didn't realise that some medication (in my case, anti-biotics) could lower the effectiveness of the pill. I knew the instant I found out that that I didn't want the pregnancy to continue....I didn't need counselling, I didn't need well meaning "this is a big decision love"...I just wanted rid of it.

For me it wasn't a big decision, I didn't tell my 'Daddy' (hell, I'm 43 now and I don't think he even likes to think that I have sex!) and I suffered absolutely NO emotional trauma afterwards. In fact, on top of my Mother who had a horrificprocedure I have several friends who've had abortions and not a single one has had regrets. IMO it all comes down to being sure that is what you want to do - if you're are sure then you won't have regrets. If you have doubts, or you're being pressured into it by another, then obviously you're far more likely to come out of it scarred.

What really pees me off though is scare mongering. If this young woman is sure (and honestly, at her age I don't blame her one bit because a child would be limiting), then all she needs is a bit of support and the facts laid out for her. What she doesn't need is preaching and emotional blackmail.

marywooyeah

Whilst I take on board the last two comments I must take issue with being told that I am "spreading misinformation".

With respect having first hand experience of the NHS treatment of me I can confirm that it was strongly pro abortion view, I hope that isn't the case for every woman, in an ideal world a woman should recieve impartial advice on all options available to her and that is what I was attempting to stress in my post.

Marie stopes provide abortions and charge for them, the cheapest one is £450, on the brook website abortion is listed over having a baby. I didn't say they don't help people who want to keep their babies, I said that they are not likely to give a pro life view because they provide abortions.

The op asked for people to describe what procedure they had and how they found that, there's a few posts with people saying they had no pain or regrets etc, I specifically said in the post that everyone is different, some people are fine with it some suffer badly, and the girl in question needs to have all the information available to her for all options before making her decision.

What happened to me was awful, but I truly hope it is not representative of what every person would experience. No where in my post have I said the girl should change her mind, I of course agree a decision should be made of her own free will, just that she should have all the facts with appropriate attention being given to her.

I posted the link to Care Confidential because they run a pregnancy crisis centre local to me and thought it may aid the OP in locating one near her and/or accessing advice from an organisation that does not provide abortions. I am saddened to hear you think their tactics are underhand, may I ask what has made you think this? I have only ever dealt with them in a post abortive capacity.

Welshwoofs

marywooyeah wrote: »

With respect having first hand experience of the NHS treatment of me I can confirm that it was strongly pro abortion view, I hope that isn't the case for every woman, in an ideal world a woman should recieve impartial advice on all options available to her and that is what I was attempting to stress in my post.

Mine was also an NHS treatment and I had all options put forward in a dispassionate and factual way. However I made it clear that I knew what I wanted to happen.

Marie stopes provide abortions and charge for them, the cheapest one is £450, on the brook website abortion is listed over having a baby.

So what? If you go and look up Marie Stopes then chances are you want an abortion so why should keeping a baby be listed higher up on the display? Why the need to go through all the options of keeping a baby? Guaranteed if you're pregnant these days lots of people will go through all the benefits of actually having a child....it's currently not in vogue to promote abortion (I've taken that on as my personal crusade...hurrah!)

I didn't say they don't help people who want to keep their babies, I said that they are not likely to give a pro life view because they provide abortions.

Oh how I hate the phrase 'pro life' - who's bloody life? The Zygote or the poor biatch who has to sacrifice the next 15-18 years of her life because someone whinger says that it's nicer to have a baby? I'd say that abortion is pro-life and I'd term being coerced into having a child as suspended-life.

The op asked for people to describe what procedure they had and how they found that, there's a few posts with people saying they had no pain or regrets etc,

I know of nobody in my personal circle who did have regrets. My hunch is that those who have regrets are those who weren't sure in the first place or those who experience fertility problems at a later stage and go into the 'Oh I've thrown away my chance' line of thinking.

I specifically said in the post that everyone is different, some people are fine with it some suffer badly, and the girl in question needs to have all the information available to her for all options before making her decision.

How much information does one need about keeping a child? Information on being a Mother is all over the bloody place...it's terminating a pregnancy that is slowly becoming a tabboo subject (again) after my Mother's generation fought so hard for it to be not just a choice, but something that one should never be ashamed of!

rachbc

I think they are underhand because the claim to be impartial whereas in fact they are very anti-abortion and will attempt to counsel any pregnant woman against abortion - quoting things like emotional trauma or physical problems including telling pregnant women that abortion risks infertility.

My area is one of a very few that have workers trained in 'decision making counselling' that have no ties to termination providers - specifically so the allegations about lack of impartiality cannot be made. these workers will spend time with a young woman helping her think through all 3 options and provide ongoing support whatever her choice. However in my experience very few young women genuinely don't know what they want - they simply need someone to give them permission to express what they really already have decided (what ever their choice) without fear of judgement.

Oh and £450? They aren't making money on it - have you any idea how much an anaesthatist (sp) and Dr and fully equipped surgery cost to run!

meritaten

It is lovely that your daughters friend has confided in you - but can she not confide in her own mum or dad? if not, that is really sad.
all you can do is continue to be her confidante and never ever tell anyone outside of this forum. Just support her hun. her body, her baby and her decision.

Torry_Quine

Person_one wrote: »

You really really need to stop spreading this misinformation on every thread about abortion.

Marie Stopes, Brook and the NHS do not have a vested interest in terminating as many pregnancies as they possibly can. They are charities and you clearly have no idea about what they actually do.

Care Confidential are vehemently anti-abortion, they use any underhanded and unethical tactic they can to prevent women terminating their pregnancies. They couldn't be any further from impartial.

I wasn't going to post on this thread as I couldn't answer what the OP asked but I can't let your comments go ignored. CARE confidential do not use tactics to prevent women having an abortion. They support the woman whether she has an abortion or continues with the pregnancy.

rachbc wrote: »

Mary whilst I have every sympathy with what happened to you your experiences are very different from someone who chooses to have a termination of their own free will.

I did quite a bit of research in Care Confidential at work and their practices are extremely dubious/ unethical. Organisations like them try to scare women out of having abortions with tales of the emotion trauma they are likely to experience when the overwhelming evidence is that women who choose abortion without coercion experience no psychological ill effects.

As above they don't use unethical means but merely let the woman know what help and support is available whatever the woman herself decides. I do agree though that a woman who makes the abortion decision herself is less likely to have psychological problems but it still happens.

rachbc wrote: »

I think they are underhand because the claim to be impartial whereas in fact they are very anti-abortion and will attempt to counsel any pregnant woman against abortion - quoting things like emotional trauma or physical problems including telling pregnant women that abortion risks infertility.

My area is one of a very few that have workers trained in 'decision making counselling' that have no ties to termination providers - specifically so the allegations about lack of impartiality cannot be made. these workers will spend time with a young woman helping her think through all 3 options and provide ongoing support whatever her choice. However in my experience very few young women genuinely don't know what they want - they simply need someone to give them permission to express what they really already have decided (what ever their choice) without fear of judgement.

Oh and £450? They aren't making money on it - have you any idea how much an anaesthatist (sp) and Dr and fully equipped surgery cost to run!

My bold - : this is actually a good description of the work done by the counsellors at CARE Confidential! They will tell the woman that if the have an abortion they may have problems afterwards its called informed consent when the doctor tells you but in abortion they frequently don't.

Yes they make money, they couldn't continue in business if they didn't.

marywooyeah

rachbc wrote: »

- quoting things like emotional trauma or physical problems including telling pregnant women that abortion risks infertility.

Oh and £450? They aren't making money on it - have you any idea how much an anaesthatist (sp) and Dr and fully equipped surgery cost to run!

I think that's a difficult one to be honest, people do need to know about the risks that can arise (not necessarily that they will before anyone shoots me down!) but it has to be done in an informative way rather than to persuade someone either way.

And no I have no idea how much it costs to terminate a pregnancy in financial terms, but either way they're not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Welshwoofs sorry for the long quote - not sure how to section it off like you have done.

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Mine was also an NHS treatment and I had all options put forward in a dispassionate and factual way. However I made it clear that I knew what I wanted to happen.

If you had all the options explained to you factually and you made an informed choice that you wanted then isn't that the ideal scenario for someone who wants an abortion?

So what? If you go and look up Marie Stopes then chances are you want an abortion so why should keeping a baby be listed higher up on the display? Why the need to go through all the options of keeping a baby? Guaranteed if you're pregnant these days lots of people will go through all the benefits of actually having a child....it's currently not in vogue to promote abortion (I've taken that on as my personal crusade...hurrah!)

I referred to that website as another poster said that marie stopes is a charity - I was pointing out that they charge for abortions eg its not free. It saddens me to read that it is your personal crusade to promote abortion - I will pray for you.

Oh how I hate the phrase 'pro life' - who's bloody life? The Zygote or the poor biatch who has to sacrifice the next 15-18 years of her life because someone whinger says that it's nicer to have a baby? I'd say that abortion is pro-life and I'd term being coerced into having a child as suspended-life.

Pro life refers to the child's life - choosing to keep your baby and allowing them to continue the life that they have already begun. If you think ending a child's life is pro life then I am sad to hear that.

I know of nobody in my personal circle who did have regrets. My hunch is that those who have regrets are those who weren't sure in the first place or those who experience fertility problems at a later stage and go into the 'Oh I've thrown away my chance' line of thinking.

I think you are correct - it does seem to be women who either didnt want to have abortions who seem to suffer most, although I don't suppose that is surprising. Similarly it must be difficult to come to terms with being unable to concieve if you have deliberately ended a previous pregnancy. I have friends who wanted abortions and don't regret it too.

How much information does one need about keeping a child? Information on being a Mother is all over the bloody place...it's terminating a pregnancy that is slowly becoming a tabboo subject (again) after my Mother's generation fought so hard for it to be not just a choice, but something that one should never be ashamed of!

Regarding information about keeping a child this is a wide range of things - financial help, perhaps help escaping an abusive relationship to raise the child, if someone is at school/college/uni help with balancing their studies. Similarly someone may just need guidance in basic parenting skills, I suppose it depends on the individual what information they feel they need.

I think abortion has always been taboo but if anything I would say that it is becoming "more acceptable" rather than reverting back into the back street abortions that you described in your earlier post. Hundreds of thousands of abortions are performed in england and wales each year and the rate goes up each year.