delicate subject - abortion

starrystarry

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Mind you...I've always considered discussion forums the last great blood sport so I relish a good barny with the pro-life mob every now and then

I don't mind the "pro-life mob". They're entitled to their opinions. It's the ones who don't have the guts to say how they really feel that I relish a debate with.

raven83

This is getting ridiculous now, this whole thread is just going round in circles, pro-lifers and pro-choice trying to argue their point of view.

Abortion will always be a controversial subject and will always raise heated debate, but people need to just accept other peoples opinions and respect that maybe their opinion differs from their own but doesn't make it right or wrong, everyone is different!

Person_one

I suspect the OP got exactly what they wanted out of this thread.

marywooyeah

Humphrey10 wrote: »

So you are saying that because you have "post abortion syndrome" from when you had a forced abortion, it was the abortion that gave you "post abortion syndrome" not the fact it was forced?
That's as nonsensical as someone saying "I have PTSD from being raped, therefore having sex causes PTSD".

No - having spoken to my GP he told me that he thought I was suffering from PTSD but would need to refer me for a diagnosis. Upon researching PTSD I found references to PAS, which reports similar symptoms but is primarily caused by someone having an abortion, whether forced or perhaps the woman initially wanted an abortion but is now suffering. As I said earlier, PAS has not yet been officially recognised as a disorder. Having read the symptoms listed for PAS, I identify with the majority of them and can say that I do believe it should become medically recognised as a "branch" of PTSD.

For me the fact that my abortion was forced definetly is a key factor in the harm I have suffered, but the actual procedure itself plays a large part as I was not told how the abortion would be carried out and having since discovered the truth I am haunted by the fact that such actions were conducted to my baby and to my body. Furthermore, I was not told of any risks and I contracted PID which was not picked up until some years later which caused me to miscarry and I have fertility problems as a result.

There are therefore a lot of factors which have resulted in PTSD, it is not nonsensical at all although I see where you are coming from with your analogy.

starrystarry

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Don't be pathetic...I'm referring to the act of deciding on an abortion not of being raped... I'll use shorter phrases for you shall I?

Just so you are in no doubt (as you seem to want to 'spin' my words)... abortion is ending a viable pregnancy that would (most likely) have resulted in the birth of a child.

I believe (as I am allowed to do in a democratic society) that abortion is the ending of a life.

How women handle / deal with the aftermath is personal to them; however, I believe (yes, my opinion) that it is only natural to revisit such a major decision in order to reconcile oneself with decisions made.

I'm off now... fill your boots with more childish remarks... how are you going to top calling me a chicken and saying I'm tying myself in knots?

Is it just easier for you to believe that I am an ignorant and misguided nutter than to accept that having an abortion might just be killing something? We both have our consciences and opinions, let's leave it at that.

I have no issue with you having an opinion. If you think abortion is wrong that's fine. It's saying it should always be repented while at the same time exempting some circumstances that I have an issue with.

Abortion is either:
A) acceptable in any circumstances (i.e. needn't be repented)
acceptable in some circumstances (i.e. should sometimes be repented)
C) acceptable in no circumstances (i.e. should always be repented)

You're either B or C. It can't be acceptable in some circumstances (medical reasons and rape) and always something that should be repented.

If you don't think it's ever acceptable, say so. Otherwise, don't say it should always be repented.

Humphrey10

First, I agree, your experience was terrible. I understand how and why and how much it has affected you.
But not all abortions need to be done like that.

My bold:

marywooyeah wrote: »

For me the fact that my abortion was forced definetly is a key factor in the harm I have suffered, but the actual procedure itself plays a large part as I was not told how the abortion would be carried out and having since discovered the truth I am haunted by the fact that such actions were conducted to my baby and to my body. Furthermore, I was not told of any risks and I contracted PID which was not picked up until some years later which caused me to miscarry and I have fertility problems as a result.

The problem is not the abortion. The problem is that you did not give informed consent, you were either lied to or not given information that you should have been given.

Someone who has given informed consent, who has been told of the risks/complications (and also been told of the risks/complications of the alternative - pregnancy and birth), and who has been told how the procedure will be carried out (if they want to know - some people ask not to be told the details of medical procedures), will have a far different experience to you.
I really don't think you can draw any comparisons between the two, in the same way as you cannot draw comparisons between how someone can expect to feel after rape, and after consensual sex.

System

Never had an abortion (thankfully) but i know if i was in the position where if found myself pregnant due to a faliure of my birth control (plus condoms) i would not hesitate to have an abortion. Its my choice. And forcing me to have a child (and the subsequent withdrawal and absitance from my bipolar medication which currently keeps me stable) would do serious mental damage. But i accept this. Which is why i will continue to have protected sex. As i feel its part of a healthy relationship. And i am taking responsiblity for my birth control by using at least 2 methods.

peachyprice

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

I believe (yes, my opinion) that it is only natural to revisit such a major decision in order to reconcile oneself with decisions made.

It really, really isn't.

And quite how you can come to that conclusion over something you've never had any experience of, I don't know.

For most stable minded women who have, of their own free will, made a decsion to not become mothers there is nothing to reconcile, nothing to repent for, nothing to regret. Job done, life goes on.

I can't same the same for women who have be fed a guilt trip from well meaning family (that didn't need to be part of the decision process in the first place) and so-called counselleors. I guess they have to carry around the guilt piled on to them by others.

As for your 'forced' abortion Mary. I think your feelings of guilt and remorse come from your own inaction, not the act of abortion. You weren't forced to have an abortion, you weren't locked in a room and tied to a bed, you could have left at any stage, but just didn't have the strength within you to walk away. I can see how that would lead you to feel the way you do, why you need to repent and reconcile. But that does not mean that women who know they have made the right decision should feel in anyway the same as you.

marywooyeah

Humphrey10 wrote: »

The problem is not the abortion. The problem is that you did not give informed consent, you were either lied to or not given information that you should have been given.

Someone who has given informed consent, who has been told of the risks/complications (and also been told of the risks/complications of the alternative - pregnancy and birth), and who has been told how the procedure will be carried out (if they want to know - some people ask not to be told the details of medical procedures), will have a far different experience to you.
I really don't think you can draw any comparisons between the two, in the same way as you cannot draw comparisons between how someone can expect to feel after rape, and after consensual sex.

yes I agree with what you are saying and have always said that I hope what happened to me is not representative of the majority of abortions. I also agree that comparing abortion to rape is not possible.

peachyprice with respect I was forced to have an abortion and I resent your use of inverted commas to trivialise what happened to me. you were not there, you do not know what happened to me therefore I would be grateful if you would refrain from making assumptions. Furthermore, I have never said that anyone should feel the way I do so not sure why you have said that.

Errata

Mary - I'm sorry you've had and are having such a difficult time, but you do yourself no favours by insisting here that you were forced to have an abortion. No woman in the UK is forced to have an aboriton, indeed it would be a criminal offence. If you felt at the time that you had no other option, then that was your choice and it wasn't a medical procedure forced on you and carried out against your expressed will.