delicate subject - abortion

Welshwoofs

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

But, if left for 9 months, your yogurt won't enter this world crying, start to learn to walk, talk and love and grow into a living, breathing (hopefully) productive member of society - those 'cells' at the beginning of a pregnancy would if given the chance.

The yogurt in my fridge wouldn't be left for 9 months and neither would any embryo that ever dared to implant itself in my body.

No matter how you try to sell this to yourself, the fact is that abortion is ending a life.

It is ending 'life' not ending 'a life' because that embryo never matured into a foetus, was never born and never had the thoughts, feelings and experience that we define as 'a life' in human terms. What I did was end the potential for 'a life' and again, for me that wasn't a big deal.

Person_one

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Shame that the 'autonomy and control' didn't extend to appropriate and effective contraception... and, no, I don't buy into the constant assertions that these unwanted pregancies all resulted from 'method' failure - a small portion maybe BUT not the vast number some posters on this forum would have us believe.

(yet again, regarding terminations, I am not referring to medical necessity or rape)

Every contraception method has a failure rate, even with perfect use, including sterilisation.

Tiddlywinks

starrystarry wrote: »

Well stop chickening out by putting a proviso about medical necessity or rape in your replies then.

If you think abortion is wrong have the guts to say so, without provisos.

If you think it's acceptable in some circumstances then stop saying this.. "So, ending a life is not something to repent? It should be."

How old are you? 'Chickening out'?

We are all adults and make choices in life - some put more thought into those than others.

I placed the 'provisos' to assist others who may have faced very difficult events in their lives...

I'll say again, abortion is ending a life - regardless of the reason - a life has been brought to an unnatural end.

Some reasons hold more 'emotion' than others BUT the abortion still has the same result... a life is ended.

Person_one

marywooyeah wrote: »

yes, you did have a baby. you will always be that child's mother.

That's really low for one so concerned about women's mental health.

starrystarry

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

How old are you? 'Chickening out'?

We are all adults and make choices in life - some put more thought into those than others.

I placed the 'provisos' to assist others who may have faced very difficult events in their lives...

I'll say again, abortion is ending a life - regardless of the reason - a life has been brought to an unnatural end.

Some reasons, hold more 'emotion' than others BUT the abortion still has the same result... a life is ended.

And that should always be "repented"?

Fire_Fox

marywooyeah wrote: »

Actually I must respectfully disagree with the first paragraph as the baby is fully formed at 8 weeks gestation but you are correct that at this stage the baby cannot survive without their mother.

With regards to the second paragraph, that is a lovely sentiment but for some people with all the will in the world it can seem impossible to move on even though you know you can't change it. I agree that learning and passing on that learning can be beneficial to both the women and others, and think it is lovely that you acknowledge the strength this takes.

There has certainly been cell differentiation/ recognisable tissues, but an embryo absolutely is not fully formed because the organs are immature/ rudimentary.

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Abortion IS ending a life, regardless of the reasons... that is a fact.

However, I recognise that people have varying reasons as to why they would wish to abort a pregnancy - some are what I consider to be 'lifestyle' related (unwanted, not the right time or whatever) whereas others are beyond their control (rape, medical condition).

I don't want it both ways - abortion IS ending a life.

But, if left for 9 months, your yogurt won't enter this world crying, start to learn to walk, talk and love and grow into a living, breathing (hopefully) productive member of society - those 'cells' at the beginning of a pregnancy would if given the chance.

No matter how you try to sell this to yourself, the fact is that abortion is ending a life. Those 'cells' would have carried on developing into a baby, child and adult. Otherwise, why the need for the procedure?

An embryo is not a life: it is not recognised as life by the medical profession nor the legal system nor our government. This is the same in most Western countries. Your statements clearly indicate you are confusing fact with your emotional response to the concept of pregnancy. Many substances have the POTENTIAL to become something else given appropriate incubation conditions and time, bread is potential mould for example. Using your logic we should outlaw any method of contraception that allows fertilisation but prevents implantation.

marywooyeah

mishkanorman wrote: »

i cant see how you came to that opinion at all ?

I will never be my lost childs mother and that is one thing that causes so much pain to us, we dont get to say we had 3 children (as it could have been) - yes I have had 3 pregnancies but most definately didnt get to become a mother to 3 children, as much as I wanted to be,

For someone who didnt want it I would say that sentiment is even more true ???

I reach that conclusion as although the child never gets to be born they still existed, they were still carried in their mother's womb and to me I very much am still my child's mother. I see what you mean when you say you never got to become a mother because your child was never born, but you still have had 3 children exist within your body. I am so sorry for what you have been through Mishka.

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Errr no, I didn't 'have a baby'. I was rather unfortunately pregnant and I got rid of the embryo at around 3 months in. I had no baby, I've never been a Mother - I got a D&C to rid me of an unfortunate and rather inconvenient problem. End of.

It was NOT a baby, it was a blob of matter. Now you can pray for me all you want but understand that doing so would be a completely selfish act done only for your own benefit.

Welshwoofs wrote: »

The yogurt in my fridge wouldn't be left for 9 months and neither would any embryo that ever dared to implant itself in my body.

I find it saddening that you view your baby this way, but the fact your baby could not survive if they were born at the time of your abortion does not make them a blob of matter. Your child did not "dare" to implant themselves in your womb, it is never a child's fault that they are created. At 3 months gestation the baby is already fulled formed and very much alive. I am not praying for you for any self gratification - what benefit for myself could I possibily derive from doing so?

Heamol

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Errr no, I didn't 'have a baby'. I was rather unfortunately pregnant and I got rid of the embryo at around 3 months in. I had no baby, I've never been a Mother - I got a D&C to rid me of an unfortunate and rather inconvenient problem. End of.



No, it's not pedantic at all. There is life all around us and ending some of that life happens all the time in every househould every day. The life I got rid of was the size of the end of my thumb and totally unviable outside the womb. It was NOT a baby, it was a blob of matter. Now you can pray for me all you want but understand that doing so would be a completely selfish act done only for your own benefit.

Aren't we all just "blobs of matter" if you want to define it like that?

A 12-week-old baby has a beating heart, arms, legs, almost all their organs and body structure, can flex their fingers and toes, has a recognizable face, etc etc. Not the image that comes to mind when you say "blob of matter". Sure, the baby can't live outside of the womb. It's not meant to.

marywooyeah

Person_one wrote: »

That's really low for one so concerned about women's mental health.

What is "really low" about it? You obviously have never suffered the loss of a child, I hope that you don't ever have to go through that.

Tiddlywinks

starrystarry wrote: »

And that should always be "repented"?

Yes... as in consider past acts, reconcile onself to the role one played in them and move forward having understood the 'how', 'what' and 'why' of the act and surrounding decision making.

With an abortion, life has been brought to an unnatural end (a 'termination' is called just that for a reason... it is the end of the pregnancy / life) - I struggle (and now this is my opinion) to understand how anyone could undergo this procedure and not revisit that decision many times and exercise some 'second-guessing'.