delicate subject - abortion

Tiddlywinks

starrystarry wrote: »

You might define it as a life but not everyone would. A potential life...yes. But let's not start a huge debate about that again, we'll be here all night.

The law in this country says it's legal to have a termination, so I'm afraid it's not up to you to tell me, or anyone else, what I should "repent". That's your moral judgement on the issue, not a fact.

Not my 'judgement' but it is my opinion and I am allowed to express this just as surely as you can express your thoughts.

And... I do believe that from the point of conception there is a life. When someone miscarries, would you say there was no loss if life?

Fire_Fox

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

I think 'repent' IS the right word... the fact is that there was a life - a viable person - whose life was ended well before nature intended.

How can a woman not feel regret and sorrow for the baby that might have been - that would surely be a 'normal' reaction.

It's about taking personal responsibility for your actions and accepting that you had a part to play in the events which led to the termination (rape / medical reasons are another matter IMO).

Some treat abortion as a perfectly acceptable alternative to contraception - indeed, some on here have said that their procedure has had no lasting effect on them at all - I find this exceptionally sad.

This has been discussed at length elsewhere on MSE many times. Many women (and many medics and many other scientists) do not see an embryo as a 'baby that might have been', they see it as a bundle of cells. The vast majority of UK abortions take place before twelve weeks, the embryo is not not fully formed nor viable outside the womb even with all the medical help money could buy.

Not having a lasting effect is NOT the same as treating abortion as an alternative to contraception, that is inaccurate and offensive. Some women make emotional choices, other women make practical choices, for the good of themselves, their family, the embryo. Realistically is a teenager who is not responsible enough to use contraception effectively always going to be responsible enough to be a fabulous parent?

Whilst I have never needed an abortion it would have been something I would have considered had I had an unplanned pregnancy. I have long known I am not mothering material, well before I had mental health issues, I don't like babies and asked to be sterilised at 18. Children deserve stable, attentive, financially secure homes with a balance of love and discipline for at least sixteen years. Not everyone can provide that for a myriad of reasons.

I'd welcome a reduction in the abortion rate, but not if that means I see even more toddlers in the city centre with a packet of crisps for lunch and gymslip mum blowing smoke all over them. Or if that means more children raised in households where there is drug addiction, prostitution, child abuse, no interest in literacy, drug dealing, ASBOs or raised in a series of foster homes.

Rather than spending time hand wringing about things in the past you cannot change you can learn from your experiences and perhaps pass them onto others, which has been done here by some brave women. :A They might regret/ repent not using contraception effectively - if that is the case - whilst remaining confident that the abortion was the right choice. That is a perfectly normal and healthy reaction, and it is not very nice of you to try and make people feel that they are 'abnormal' for not thinking and feeling like you.

starrystarry

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Not my 'judgement' but it is my opinion and I am allowed to express this just as surely as you can express your thoughts.

And... I do believe that from the point of conception there is a life. When someone miscarries, would you say there was no loss if life?

Of course you can express your thoughts but perhaps you could say "I think it should be" rather than "it should be".

Re miscarriages, it depends at what point the miscarriage occurs. If it's very early then I wouldn't say it was a loss of life. A lot of women miscarry without even knowing they were pregnant. If a miscarriage occurs later on then yes, I would say it was a loss of life.

Person_one

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

So, ending a life is not something to repent? It should be.

If you have an abortion, you repent away.

Don't try to dictate how every other woman should feel about it.

Heamol

starrystarry wrote: »

You might define it as a life but not everyone would. A potential life...yes. But let's not start a huge debate about that again, we'll be here all night.

The law in this country says it's legal to have a termination, so I'm afraid it's not up to you to tell me, or anyone else, what I should "repent". That's your moral judgement on the issue, not a fact.

The same could have been said to the abolitionists. There have been things legal in this country before that have not been moral.

System

I dont know how i feel about abortion. Personally i dont feel that i could have one but then ive always had a man beside me to support me through my pregnancy and has loved my children as i have.

Ive never been in the position to bring up a child alone, or knowingly found out my child had been handicapped or wouldnt survive pregnancy and because ive been fortunate enough not go go through the experience, i refuse to judge those who have and choose to terminate.

Am i to judge? No. I'll leave judgement to others as its not my place.

Person_one

Heamol wrote: »

The same could have been said to the abolitionists. There have been things legal in this country before that have not been moral.

How incredibly offensive to compare women having autonomy and control over their own reproductive organs with the enslaving of a whole race.

Welshwoofs

mishkanorman wrote: »

Whilst you may not see the need for such websites, leaflets or viewpoints to be-little their need in such a manner is potentially upsetting,

Absolutely anything can be 'potentially' upsetting and this is a discussion forum so if we all avoided saying anything 'potentially' upsetting then nobody would be posting anything ever again.

I have no issue whatsoever with counselling for those who've had abortions...I have issue with outdated, regressive and barbaric religious institutions doing it.

I would say for me personally reading that i felt how you were made to feel by the nurse at the hospital, she was entitled to have her opinion of you and your choices but didnt need to make you aware of them in such a manner as to cause you upset.

Not a good analogy. A nurse is paid to do a job and whilst performing that job her opinions are irrelevant; she should act professionally. I am not doing a job when I post here; there is no onus on me to act either dispassionately or professionally - like everyone else I am simply stating my thoughts and people take them or leave them. If people want to be offended by them so be it...it wouldn't be the first time and I very much doubt it'll be the last. Me...I go with Stephen Fry's thoughts on offence

Welshwoofs

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

I think 'repent' IS the right word... the fact is that there was a life - a viable person - whose life was ended well before nature intended.

Absolute codswallop. You try taking an embryo of the age most get aborted at and seeing just how viable it is outside the womb. Zero chance.

How can a woman not feel regret and sorrow for the baby that might have been - that would surely be a 'normal' reaction.

Luckily you don't define the boundaries of what's normal.

It's about taking personal responsibility for your actions and accepting that you had a part to play in the events which led to the termination (rape / medical reasons are another matter IMO).

Hello, 1820 calling.

Some treat abortion as a perfectly acceptable alternative to contraception - indeed, some on here have said that their procedure has had no lasting effect on them at all - I find this exceptionally sad.

You find it sad that someone wasn't mentally scarred for a long period? You'd prefer women to really suffer? Hello....1520 calling.

Heamol

Person_one wrote: »

How incredibly offensive to compare women having autonomy and control over their own reproductive organs with the enslaving of a whole race.

The question is whether someone should have autonomy over the life of another human being. That is what abortion is, making decisions that end the life of another human being.