delicate subject - abortion

balletshoes

marywooyeah wrote: »

Well over 6 years later I still feel as raw as if it was yesterday, I wish someone had told me that this might happen to me.

I don't think the girl the OP is talking about was in the same position as you though mary, you wanted to keep your baby. She doesn't, and I honestly do believe that makes a huge difference to how you feel after going through with a termination.

kitschkitty

coinxoperated wrote: »

I think firstly she should be discussing her method of contraception so she can avoid this situation in the future. I'm sorry, but there are plenty if different things you can use to stop getting pregnant that are effective. She needs to be educated in this.


I had the implant but I had some medication changed that knocked its ability to work properly. Just an accident!

Can you see the irony here judging this girl you don't know, as needing contraceptives advice when you got pregnant yourself whilst using contraception.

kitschkitty

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Well I'd find it rather worrying that their 'manual' for post-abortion counselling includes the statement:

"Part of the healing journey to post-abortion recovery involves repentance – the only remedy for guilt. If we are to walk this journey with a woman then we need to clearly see which boundaries she has crossed … immorality, coveting, lying, as well as taking innocent life."

Serious - !!!!!! that's unconscionable. :mad:

Welshwoofs

Torry_Quine wrote: »

Obviously to someone like yourself who personally has had no psychological problems after an abortion that statement has no meaning for you. The women who go to CARE CONFIDENTIAL for counselling though are having problems one of which can be guilt and this can really drag her down.

Torry - if someone is having psychological problems after an abortion, how does it help to approach the subject in terms of "taking an innocent life" and 'immorality', 'lying' and 'coverting'?

poet123

Welshwoofs wrote: »

I haven't been disrespectful to anyone else here.



It's not 'quite insulting' to anyone at all because it's about me and my experience and my feelings. Why on earth should I have to apologise for how I felt or lie about what it was like for me?

I thought it was disrespectful because you quoted passages from a clinic and denigrated the sentiments contained therein, when for a lot of women (some of them reading your comments) they would have rung true. You said you would like to drop kick whoever wrote that "!!!!!!" if memory serves. That may accurately reflect your feelings but it also undermines anyone for whom those words resonated.

For example, the last passage about an abortion a long time ago coming back to affect you after many years. This is exactly what happened to my friend, so it does happen, clearly it didn't happen to you, but it is not !!!!!! either!!

Imagine a subject which affects you emotionally ( assuming there is one) and then imagine someone rubbishing those feelings and using emotive terminology, would you not feel that your feelings were being disrespected? Perhaps not, but clearly others do.

kitschkitty

Torry_Quine wrote: »

The women who go to CARE CONFIDENTIAL for counselling though are having problems one of which can be guilt and this can really drag her down.

But repentance implies you have done something wrong, and following that up by saying you have crossed a boundary and then with a list of possible things you may have done wrong immorality, coveting, lying, as well as taking innocent life is 100% backing up the fact that this organisation is judging the abortion as negative in a very particular way.

:mad::mad::mad:


The woman has made a choice. That choice may leave her with some guilt but she does not need to "repent" she needs to identify & understand why she feels guilty and be supported/confirmed (can't think of the right word) in her decision by the reasons she chose to have the abortion.

repent:
1.
to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc.
2.
to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one's life for the better; be penitent.

So they think you should be sorry, conscience-stricken, & self-reproachful about making a decision that was the right decision for you and that will cure your guilt.... words fail me.

Welshwoofs

poet123 wrote: »

Imagine a subject which affects you emotionally ( assuming there is one) and then imagine someone rubbishing those feelings and using emotive terminology, would you not feel that your feelings were being disrespected? Perhaps not, but clearly others do.

No, I'm not disrespecting people's feelings - my comments are about the style that site is written in which, as you'll see from the quote above about "taking an innocent life" is highly emotive rhetoric which is absolutely guaranteed to make someone feel about as badly as possible.

I certainly don't rubbish people who feel bad after having an abortion - it's a personal thing and there's a sliding scale from people like me who it hasn't spared a second thought over it to women who were upset about it at the time but got over it to women who very much regret it. There's no right way to feel about it. What I do have a problem with however is religious organisations masquerading as impartial advice centres and spitting out highly charged rhetoric.

By the way - your little line "assuming there is one" regarding any subject that may effect me emotionally looks depressingly close to those people who have the opinion that if a woman is unruffled about abortion they must be a cold, unfeeling biatch. I'm going to assume that's not what you're aiming for as you generally come across as too intelligent to spout that kind of tripe.

Torry_Quine

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Torry - if someone is having psychological problems after an abortion, how does it help to approach the subject in terms of "taking an innocent life" and 'immorality', 'lying' and 'coverting'?

I agree and a counsellor should never use terms like those to a client and I'd be shocked if the did.:eek:

The woman herself in some cases will talk of her choice to kill her child for instance. I can't see what good those other terms have in post abortion counselling although the woman may have had an affair or lied to cover up I suppose.

kitschkitty wrote: »

But repentance implies you have done something wrong, and following that up by saying you have crossed a boundary and then with a list of possible things you may have done wrong immorality, coveting, lying, as well as taking innocent life is 100% backing up the fact that this organisation is judging the abortion as negative in a very particular way.

:mad::mad::mad:


The woman has made a choice. That choice may leave her with some guilt but she does not need to "repent" she needs to identify & understand why she feels guilty and be supported/confirmed (can't think of the right word) in her decision by the reasons she chose to have the abortion.

repent:
1.
to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc.
2.
to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one's life for the better; be penitent.

So they think you should be sorry, conscience-stricken, & self-reproachful about making a decision that was the right decision for you and that will cure your guilt.... words fail me.

The woman herself can often use phrases like 'I was wrong to kill my baby' who she now feels is an innocent victim and so yes she feels that repentence and help with the guilt are needed. All women are different and may not feel guilt or remorse and counselling is not a one size fits all but working with the woman to help her to come to terms with what she now sees as a negative event.

poet123

Welshwoofs wrote: »

No, I'm not disrespecting people's feelings - my comments are about the style that site is written in which, as you'll see from the quote above about "taking an innocent life" is highly emotive rhetoric which is absolutely guaranteed to make someone feel about as badly as possible.

I certainly don't rubbish people who feel bad after having an abortion - it's a personal thing and there's a sliding scale from people like me who it hasn't spared a second thought over it to women who were upset about it at the time but got over it to women who very much regret it. There's no right way to feel about it. What I do have a problem with however is religious organisations masquerading as impartial advice centres and spitting out highly charged rhetoric.

By the way - your little line "assuming there is one" regarding any subject that may effect me emotionally looks depressingly close to those people who have the opinion that if a woman is unruffled about abortion they must be a cold, unfeeling biatch. I'm going to assume that's not what you're aiming for as you generally come across as too intelligent to spout that kind of tripe.

I wasn't referring to your comments about the wording you now highlight, and in fact I very much agree with you in that respect. It was the passages you specifically quoted in the post Mishkoran commented on, none of which used "highly charged rhetoric". If you like it was the style your comments were written in which I think could have been more sensitive, similar to the way we both view the style some of the site was written in I suppose.

Specifically these comments;

And their words on abortion:

"For some women, abortion is something they feel they have come to terms with, but for others they feel that it is a painful part of their lives - something that affects them deeply, even if they felt they were making the right decision at the time."

Well I've had an abortion and it was neither something 'I had to come to terms with' nor something that was 'a painful part of their lives'. I've had more painful bowel movements and I've given more thought to my choice of dishes from a take-away menu. Why make an abortion into a life changing thing when it's simply a very trivial thing to a lot of women?

And this....

"I had an abortion a long time ago...

If you had an abortion a long time ago, maybe you have experienced something in your life recently that has brought it all back again for you and you're finding it hard to shake off as you did before. Perhaps this is the first time you've allowed yourself to really think about what happened and what your abortion meant."




" Oh please! I've love to drop-kick whomever wrote that bunch of !!!!!!. "



With regard to my other comment it certainly wasn't meant that way at all, I know several woman who knew abortion was the route they wanted and have never regretted it at all and I wouldn't judge them as unfeeling for that, it was right for them, end of. You do come across as very unemotional in your posts in general, not specifically on here. Some people are simply made that way, it isn't a criticism.

Nicki

I would have been one of the ladies welshwoofs mentioned in her first post - ie the ladies having a miscarriage weeping as she recovered from her termination - as I've suffered a number of losses and had difficulties conceiving, and yet I didn't think it was insensitive or out of order for her to say that FOR HER the decision was no more difficult than ordering a takeaway, and that even years later it has not caused her emotional trauma. She didn't say that was the case for everyone, but she did very eloquently make the point that not all women find it difficult, and surely she is entitled to make that point?

The posts that I DID find insensitive on this thread were the ones about zygotes, et al. I have never ever announced my pregnancy to my partner with the words "Darling, I have a zygote, or even an embryo, inside me". Even people who don't actually want to be pregnant and are horror struck to get a positive test know on all levels that there is an unborn child to either be kept or aborted, and that there is a quantum difference between having a termination and for example a derma-abrasion or any other cosmetic procedure which removes clusters of cells from your body. I have never come across anyone in real life or online who has had a termination and doesn't acknowledge that it was the ending of a potential life, whether they are comfortable with that decision or struggling with it.

As OP is no longer reading the thread however, I do wonder what is the point of it continuing. There is no one here taking any useful advice or opinions any more to all accounts, just people on both sides of the debate getting upset and angry by the opinions of those on the other side.