delicate subject - abortion

Welshwoofs

Heamol wrote: »

The question is whether someone should have autonomy over the life of another human being. That is what abortion is, making decisions that end the life of another human being.

No it isn't.

Tiddlywinks

Person_one wrote: »

How incredibly offensive to compare women having autonomy and control over their own reproductive organs with the enslaving of a whole race.

Shame that the 'autonomy and control' didn't extend to appropriate and effective contraception... and, no, I don't buy into the constant assertions that these unwanted pregancies all resulted from 'method' failure - a small portion maybe BUT not the vast number some posters on this forum would have us believe.

(yet again, regarding terminations, I am not referring to medical necessity or rape)

marywooyeah

Person_one wrote: »

Can you find the equivalent for 'post abortion trauma', or in fact one reputable psychiatric journal that acknowledges its existence?

what you are referring to is known amongst post abortive women as "Post Abortion Syndrome", there has long been calls for this to be recognised as a form of post traumatic stress disorder but you are correct to say that PAS has not yet been officially recognised.

I can tell you from my experience that PAS is very real and I am currently awaiting a referral as my GP thinks I have PTSD from the forced abortion.

mishkanorman wrote: »

would it specifically called 'post abortion trauma' - I would just call it traumatic, depression, etc

PND is only now becoming recognised or readily accepted as anything more severe than 'baby blues' - with abortion being such a taboo subject still surely its got to be a case of not yet giving it a name rather than it not existing ?

yes I agree - as above x

Fire_Fox wrote: »

This has been discussed at length elsewhere on MSE many times. Many women (and many medics and many other scientists) do not see an embryo as a 'baby that might have been', they see it as a bundle of cells. The vast majority of UK abortions take place before twelve weeks, the embryo is not not fully formed nor viable outside the womb even with all the medical help money could buy.

Rather than spending time hand wringing about things in the past you cannot change you can learn from your experiences and perhaps pass them onto others, which has been done here by some brave women. :A

Actually I must respectfully disagree with the first paragraph as the baby is fully formed at 8 weeks gestation but you are correct that at this stage the baby cannot survive without their mother.

With regards to the second paragraph, that is a lovely sentiment but for some people with all the will in the world it can seem impossible to move on even though you know you can't change it. I agree that learning and passing on that learning can be beneficial to both the women and others, and think it is lovely that you acknowledge the strength this takes.

starrystarry

Heamol wrote: »

The question is whether someone should have autonomy over the life of another human being. That is what abortion is, making decisions that end the life of another human being.

Opinion, again, not fact.

Welshwoofs

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Shame that the 'autonomy and control' didn't extend to appropriate and effective contraception... and, no, I don't buy into the constant assertions that these unwanted pregancies all resulted from 'method' failure - a small portion maybe BUT not the vast number some posters on this forum would have us believe.

(yet again, regarding terminations, I am not referring to medical necessity or rape)

Why...just why would anyone choose abortion over contraception? Sure the procedure was trivial for me - but even the process of going to the GP to explain that I didn't want to be pregnant, then making an appointment with the hospital, having a scan, undergoing general anaesthetic and all that malarky was considerably inconvenient and meant taking a couple of days off work. Now why would anyone do that instead of taking a pill, using a condom or getting a coil fitted?

Tiddlywinks

Heamol wrote: »

The question is whether someone should have autonomy over the life of another human being. That is what abortion is, making decisions that end the life of another human being.

starrystarry wrote: »

Opinion, again, not fact.

If a pregnancy were not viable (again, I am not talking about medical necessity) then there would be no need to abort would there?

Abortion is the ending of a viable pregnancy... in other words, ending a life - how is that not a fact?

marywooyeah

Welshwoofs wrote: »

No it isn't.

Yes, it is. You said yourself that you spent more time choosing a takeaway than you did to decide that your baby shouldn't live.

Whether you recognise an unborn baby as a baby, or whether you classify the baby as a bunch of cells, the baby and the "bunch of cells" are alive and an abortion kills them. How anyone can argue that abortion does not end life is beyond me.

starrystarry

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Shame that the 'autonomy and control' didn't extend to appropriate and effective contraception... and, no, I don't buy into the constant assertions that these unwanted pregancies all resulted from 'method' failure - a small portion maybe BUT not the vast number some posters on this forum would have us believe.

(yet again, regarding terminations, I am not referring to medical necessity or rape)

Hang on, you can't have it both ways. Abortion is either "ending a life" or it isn't. Or are you saying that abortion where the pregnancy was a result of rape is not "ending a life"? Is "ending a life" ok in some instances? Do women not need to "repent" those abortions?

Heamol

starrystarry wrote: »

Opinion, again, not fact.

It's not my opinion that an unborn child is a human being. That is fact. The heart of the unborn child starts to beat at 21-22 days. Fact. Abortion ends the life of the child. Fact.

starrystarry

marywooyeah wrote: »

How anyone can argue that abortion does not end life is beyond me.

There's life and there's a life. Two different things. There's life in every individual cell of my body but none of those individual cells are a life.