delicate subject - abortion

starrystarry

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Yes... as in consider past acts, reconcile onself to the role one played in them and move forward having understood the 'how', 'what' and 'why' of the act and surrounding decision making.

Reconcile oneself to the role one played in being raped?

You're tying yourself up in knots now.

*max*

marywooyeah wrote: »

yes, you did have a baby. you will always be that child's mother.

My word...talk about using highly emotive language to try and make someone feel guilty. That was really low.

I really think you should abstain from posting on threads relating to this subject, since you are so obviously emotional about it and clearly unhappy about your personal circumstances, which we are all aware of. It isn't doing you any good, and you are projecting your feelings onto other people whose experience of the same has been positive. Of course it's going to make you feel bitter. This isn't healthy, and I really think you should stop posting about this, for your own sake.

For what it's worth, I think this thread has turned into a battle over semantics and a clash of opposite views on a highly controversial subject and it's not going anywhere now.

Welshwoofs

marywooyeah wrote: »

I find it saddening that you view your baby this way, but the fact your baby could not survive if they were born at the time of your abortion does not make them a blob of matter. Your child did not "dare" to implant themselves in your womb, it is never a child's fault that they are created. At 3 months gestation the baby is already fulled formed and very much alive. I am not praying for you for any self gratification - what benefit for myself could I possibily derive from doing so?

There was no baby.

And yes, you absolutely are 'praying for me' for your own benefit as I've already told you that I'm an atheist so you know you're not doing for my benefit. What could you derive from it? Well I tend to think that those who pray for others, even against those others' wishes and beliefs, do so in order that they can come away with a smug feeling that they're ever so slightly better than the poor unfortunate they're praying for

Fire_Fox

Heamol wrote: »

Aren't we all just "blobs of matter" if you want to define it like that?

A 12-week-old baby has a beating heart, arms, legs, almost all their organs and body structure, can flex their fingers and toes, has a recognizable face, etc etc. Not the image that comes to mind when you say "blob of matter". Sure, the baby can't live outside of the womb. It's not meant to.

Differentiated cells/ recognisable tissues doesn't define a human being, otherwise we would have to call a teratoma a baby, we would never be able to switch off the life support machine of someone who is brain dead, and we'd have to put the lives of food animals on the same footing as human lives. Your argument is a sound one for reducing the gestation at which abortions can be performed, not for naming something for what it might potentially become.

I think most pro-choicers and medics accept there is a point somewhere between conception and birth where a foetus is actually a baby, and some accept that is before the point at which the foetus is viable outside the womb. But if something looks like a bundle of cells or a blob of matter down a powerful microscope .... then that is exactly what it is.

Most abortions are performed well before twelve weeks in the UK



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_Kingdom

Welshwoofs

*max* wrote: »

It isn't doing you any good, and you are projecting your feelings onto other people whose experience of the same has been positive. Of course it's going to make you feel bitter. This isn't healthy, and I really think you should stop posting about this, for your own sake.

Totally agree with the above.

For what it's worth, I think this thread has turned into a battle over semantics and a clash of opposite views on a highly controversial subject and it's not going anywhere now.

Agree with that as well - but it's unfortunately always the way because whilst pro-choice people stick to biological and legal terminology, pro-lifers will utilise the most emotive terminology possible. Mind you...I've always considered discussion forums the last great blood sport so I relish a good barny with the pro-life mob every now and then

Humphrey10

marywooyeah wrote: »

I can tell you from my experience that PAS is very real and I am currently awaiting a referral as my GP thinks I have PTSD from the forced abortion.

So you are saying that because you have "post abortion syndrome" from when you had a forced abortion, it was the abortion that gave you "post abortion syndrome" not the fact it was forced?
That's as nonsensical as someone saying "I have PTSD from being raped, therefore having sex causes PTSD".

marywooyeah

Welshwoofs wrote: »

There was no baby.

And yes, you absolutely are 'praying for me' for your own benefit as I've already told you that I'm an atheist so you know you're not doing for my benefit. What could you derive from it? Well I tend to think that those who pray for others, even against those others' wishes and beliefs, do so in order that they can come away with a smug feeling that they're ever so slightly better than the poor unfortunate they're praying for

I don't view you as a poor unfortunate person at all, nor do I derive any feeling of smugness. If that is your view of prayer, which you are of course entitled to, you are missing the point somewhat.

In response to the above poster I am not trying to make anyone feel guilty, it's simply a fact that a pregnant woman is a mother. If your child dies it does not mean that you have never been nor cease to be a mother - indeed there is a ground for abortion on the basis of the mother's health.

I don't feel bitter nor do I feel posting is not doing me any good, thankyou for your concern though.

Tiddlywinks

starrystarry wrote: »

Reconcile oneself to the role one played in being raped?

You're tying yourself up in knots now.

Don't be pathetic...I'm referring to the act of deciding on an abortion not of being raped... I'll use shorter phrases for you shall I?

Just so you are in no doubt (as you seem to want to 'spin' my words)... abortion is ending a viable pregnancy that would (most likely) have resulted in the birth of a child.

I believe (as I am allowed to do in a democratic society) that abortion is the ending of a life.

How women handle / deal with the aftermath is personal to them; however, I believe (yes, my opinion) that it is only natural to revisit such a major decision in order to reconcile oneself with decisions made.

I'm off now... fill your boots with more childish remarks... how are you going to top calling me a chicken and saying I'm tying myself in knots?

Is it just easier for you to believe that I am an ignorant and misguided nutter than to accept that having an abortion might just be killing something? We both have our consciences and opinions, let's leave it at that.

Fire_Fox

marywooyeah wrote: »

In response to the above poster I am not trying to make anyone feel guilty, it's simply a fact that a pregnant woman is a mother. If your child dies it does not mean that you have never been nor cease to be a mother - indeed there is a ground for abortion on the basis of the mother's health.

Grounds for abortions are for the pregnant woman, the wording is not mother as you claim.
http://www.efc.org.uk/young_people/facts_about_abortion/uk_abortion_law.html

Welshwoofs

marywooyeah wrote: »

If that is your view of prayer, which you are of course entitled to, you are missing the point somewhat.

I'm missing the point purely because there is no point. There is no god and your prayers are worthless to me (and to yourself frankly...but if you find them a good crutch, rock on, just leave me out of it please)