delicate subject - abortion

Torry_Quine

patwinning wrote: »

Maybe harsh was the wrong word, sorry about that:o
I just dont see the harm in it but, of course, thats my opinion only.
As i said, maybe it helps mary to deal with her own grief.
I'm unsure about a god myself but if it helps other people to cope with life then i dont see the harm in it:)

No problem. I don't see any harm but many do and that's what my point was. Yes she has a lot of grief but others don't and to be honest I don't think its helpful for her to say she prays for others when they don't want her to. She needs to accept that alhough it was a really difficult time for her that view isn't universal.

patwinning wrote: »

It wouldn't bother me as i dont believe in those thing.
Really not trying to have a go at anyone. I just believe that maybe we should be a bit more tolerant of each other?

Absolutely but surely that tolerance includes not ignoring the requests of others.

patacake58

Torry_Quine wrote: »

No problem. I don't see any harm but many do and that's what my point was. Yes she has a lot of grief but others don't and to be honest I don't think its helpful for her to say she prays for others when they don't want her to. She needs to accept that alhough it was a really difficult time for her that view isn't universal.



Absolutely but surely that tolerance includes not ignoring the requests of others.

Ive seen the affects an abortion can have on someone close to me.
Maybe Mary has that much grief inside her at what happened she cant rationalise very well?
I do agree with what you have posted above that tolerence should include not ignoring the wishes of others.
Unhappily for her maybe Mary just cant do that at the minute?
So its up to others to be tolerant of her?

System

Person_one wrote: »

Can you not understand that there is a huge huge difference between a wanted and loved baby at 12 weeks and an unplanned and unwanted foetus at 12 weeks?

No... its one and the same. Like i said before, i'm not anti abortion but i'd like to think every baby conceived (or aborted) is thought of more than an unconvenience.

Torry_Quine

patwinning wrote: »

Ive seen the affects an abortion can have on someone close to me.
Maybe Mary has that much grief inside her at what happened she cant rationalise very well?
I do agree with what you have posted above that tolerence should include not ignoring the wishes of others.
Unhappily for her maybe Mary just cant do that at the minute?
So its up to others to be tolerant of her?

I know how much she has been effected and yes that does make her feelings very difficult to rationalise and its hard for her to see what to her can seem very flippant comments. She needs care and support and can only hope she gets it.

Welshwoofs

patwinning wrote: »

I just believe that maybe we should be a bit more tolerant of each other?

"Oh it's so wonderful to hear you're getting married! I'll slaughter one of our farm piglets tonight and have a roast in your honour."
"I'd really rather you didn't; I'm Jewish"
"But it's just so lovely that you're getting married so I tell you what, I'll just go ahead and slaughter that piglet in your name anyway."

Do you see the point? The harm is continuing to do something when you've been asked not to do it. I practice my tolerance of believers by not walking into church services and pointing out in loud voice that everyone there is wasting their time because there's no god.....in return, I do rather expect that if I ask someone not to include me in their religious rituals they do me the same courtesy.

Judi wrote: »

No... its one and the same. Like i said before, i'm not anti abortion but i'd like to think every baby conceived (or aborted) is thought of more than an unconvenience.

But that is forcing your viewpoint on others. I would never tell a woman grieving over a miscarriage or a termination that she should buck up because it's 'no big deal' because I recognise that for some women it's utterly traumatising. However for some women, like me, a pregnancy at early stage is purely an inconvience...it's not a baby, not 'a life', not a child...it's a problem to be recitified. Why should that viewpoint be criticised? It's not wrong, it's merely different from yours.

patacake58

I was not having a pop at you Welshwoofs. I understand that you are entitled to your views and wishes.
People sometimes do things that they really dont understand can be insulting to another person. I dont think its them actually wanting to hurt the other person, they just dont understand how strongly some peoples views are held.

Welshwoofs

patwinning wrote: »

People sometimes do things that they really dont understand can be insulting to another person. I dont think its them actually wanting to hurt the other person, they just dont understand how strongly some peoples views are held.

I'd agree if it was done unknowingly, but in this case she'd be clearly told that I didn't welcome her prayers as I was an atheist and she went ahead and again insisted she'd pray for me. What that projects is that my beliefs are irrelevant or unimportant against her need to proclaim she's praying for me...and that's what is disrespectful.

What I find the most odd about her doing such things is that she is someone who was clearly pressurised into having an abortion that she didn't want. Someone rode roughshod over her wishes to exert their own wishes upon her. I therefore find it rather ironic that she's happy to ride roughshod over other people's wishes in order to exert her own beliefs in other areas.

raven83

I can't believe this debate is still going on, people just need to accept other peoples point of views on the subject and stop having it out as to who is right, morally or not. Respect each others feelings/view and accept that we as people feel different things about it, end of.

taxi36

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

Can I just say from what I remember of your dad's previous posts what a lovely and supportive dad you have.

You are right! He's the best! lol

Toni x

Shak1rak

Well I think it's great that you are supporting her whatever her decision!!
Abortion is a really tough thing to go through! And yes it is a personal thing to ask however if you not ask, how are you supposed to know the effect it actually has on an individual and what ways of supporting the girl through it would be best.
I hope all goes well either way for her x